W3C

– DRAFT –
Internationalization Working Group Teleconference

16 June 2022

Attendees

Present
Addison, Atsushi, Felix, Fuqiao, JcK, Richard
Regrets
Bert
Chair
Addison Phillips
Scribe
addison, xfq_

Meeting minutes

<addison> trackbot, prepare teleconference

Agenda Review

Action Items

<addison> https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/open

close ACTION-1157

<trackbot> Closed ACTION-1157.

atsushi: jlreq-d repo created

close ACTION-1158

<trackbot> Closed ACTION-1158.

close ACTION-1161

<trackbot> Closed ACTION-1161.

Info Share

<addison> xfq: trying to use netlify to preview changes to repos

<addison> ... only did i18n-drafts and specdev

<addison> ... previously we used pr-preview, but it cannot handle the changes to images or styles or scripts or webfonts

<addison> ... netlify can handle this

<addison> ... doesn't support diff

<addison> ... for specs plan is to use both; pr-preview for diff and netlify for preview

<addison> ... and netlify needed for web pages

addison: the preview is better than before

RADAR Review

https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/projects/1

addison: DCAT 3?

atsushi: still reviewing

RTL scripts update

https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-core/2022AprJun/0119.html

https://github.com/w3c/i18n-drafts/pull/399

https://deploy-preview-399--i18n-drafts.netlify.app/questions/qa-scripts.en

r12a: this is quite a big change

<r12a> https://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-scripts.en.html

r12a: if you look at the original ^
… if you look at the old article, you'll see the question used to be "What directions are commonly localized languages written in?"
… if you look at the Netlify version, it's "What languages are written with right-to-left scripts?"
… immediately after the answer there's a ToC
… I removed the ToC
… languages are never RTL, scripts are RTL
… you have this very looong table
… total number of speakers from SIL Ethnologue
… grand total of 2,305,048,719 potential users of RTL scripts
… and these are just modern languages
… and there's a paragraph at the bottom about historical usage of scripts
… I might have to rearrange the table
… in alphabetical order before publishing
… this was in response to Craig Cornelius saying the new scripts are not mentioned in this article

addison: any objections to publishing this?

[silence]

ACTION: richard: publish updated rtl languages article

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1162 - Publish updated rtl languages article [on Richard Ishida - due 2022-06-23].

WICG/manifest-incubations review

https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3As%3Awicg-manifest-incubations

https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1554

addison: as an introduction, this group has a proposal
… to add some stuff in the web app manifest
… adding translations to the manifest format
… the first tissue is they don't define how the matching is done

https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1555

xfq: I guess because it's still a draft proposal

addison: any objections?

[silence]

addison: the next issue
… they match the translations according to the order of the items
… if the document gets serialised the order might be wrong

xfq: why would serialisation change the order?

addison: think of your favourite JSON serialization library
… does it change the order during serialisation?

xfq: I guess that depends on the implementation

addison: yeah

atsushi: I worked with some localisation tools like Pontoon
… @@

<atsushi> pontoon

<atsushi> +1 to go

<r12a> +1

https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1556

addison: last one
… they don't associate dir with each translation

<atsushi> +1

addison: they only have a file level dir

<r12a> https://github.com/gpuweb/gpuweb/issues/2780#issuecomment-1157495027

WebGPU

https://github.com/gpuweb/gpuweb/issues/2780#issuecomment-1157495027

https://github.com/gpuweb/gpuweb/issues/2780#issuecomment-1141227619

[xfq introduces the issue]

r12a: https://github.com/gpuweb/gpuweb/issues/2780#issuecomment-1141227619 mentions "switch the language of error messages and other strings after device creation", but it's not related to this issue, which is about the lang & dir of the string itself
… even if it's not changed

addison: each message item should have their own lang & dir
… it's ok to have a default

r12a: what we want is to let them do both
… they only need to specify the strings that are problematic
… other strings should use the default

r12a: you need to have the declaration at the top of the file and have the possibility of using and override on every string
… not related to change the language

JcK: when do we need to tag these strings?

r12a: like numbers

JcK: the other great example is interntaional domain names

agenda+ Add commentary to 9.3 Working with personal names

<r12a> https://github.com/w3c/bp-i18n-specdev/pull/72#discussion_r899116063

<r12a> https://deploy-preview-72--bp-i18n-specdev.netlify.app/

<r12a> https://deploy-preview-72--bp-i18n-specdev.netlify.app/#loc_names

r12a: I took the text from the article
… there's a thread in github
… addison I think I'm mostly OK

https://deploy-preview-72--bp-i18n-specdev.netlify.app/#loc_names_global_audience

r12a: my action, as I understood, was to provide a list of names people could just pick up and use
… what they need to know is what these weird names come from
… most of the lists of people's names are very European centric
… maybe have Japan and Russia and Turkey and Israel
… but really we want African names, Southeast Asian names, and so on and so forth
… but for Southeast Asia and China
… I ended up looking at Wikipedia

addison: when we talked to security folks
… they use Alice and Bob

r12a: I guess what I was wondering was
… maybe we could define regions
… I'll ignore North America, but add South America

addison: Africa

r12a: China, Japan

JcK: South America they have cool indigenous names

r12a: not by country, but by large geographical region
… @@

r12a: I'm not dealing with family names
… in Thailand, they use nicknames

addison: seems like a lot of work
… we're writing a baby name finder

atsushi: Vietnamese names
… they use pronunciation clusters
… some of my friends have 3 clusters, some of my friends have 4 clusters
… might be interesting for western people

r12a: same with Chinese names
… starts getting complicated
… at least I need a bit more time

addison: we have three options
… 1. @@
… do we want to make a list?

JcK: i think what we're trying to do is correct
… @@

r12a: and there are cultures where you're not supposed to use somebody's name

addison: I can make a proposal

AOB?

Summary of action items

  1. richard: publish updated rtl languages article
Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 185 (Thu Dec 2 18:51:55 2021 UTC).

Diagnostics

Succeeded: s/@@/Craig Cornelius/

Succeeded: s/Pootle@@?/Pontoon/

Succeeded: s/i"m/I'm/

Maybe present: r12a, xfq