<janina> It's me. My speaker is a different device than my microphone--because of a session on the Bach St. Matthew Passion yesterday. No fixing it ...

<ToddL> scribe: ToddL

complete Issue 451

<Lauriat> https://github.com/w3c/silver/issues/451

<jeanne> https://github.com/w3c/silver/issues/451

jeanne: Ended with resolution on Issue 451

<jeanne> https://www.w3.org/2022/04/01-silver-minutes.html#t03 <- Discussion from last week'

<jeanne> We have received similar requests for an automated test level. There are some complex issues associated with this, including the challenges of reducing the accessibility at that level. We intend to make WCAG3 testing more granular to support automated testing. We are going to address this issue when we have a more detailed conversation on Conformance.

jeanne: reading text that will go into proposed response.

<jeanne> Proposed RESOLUTION: Accept the response to Issue 451 above

<Wilco> +1

<sarahhorton> +1

<Lauriat> +1

<Makoto> +1

+1

<jeanne> +1

RESOLUTION: Accept the response to Issue 451 above

recap and continue the AGWG guidelines exercise

<maryjom> Sorry, had to step away for a moment - late +1

<Makoto> I was not at the call as well.

<jeanne> https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1sGLpBwAAsZfhANpWO3jo0zMOdwDtckhjSmsYpisQfFU/edit#slide=id.p

jeanne: Going over Tuesday call for AGWG exercise for Lauriat and Makoto

Rachael: Not just quality but things like tone of voice are included. This is a little bit of a gap fill (example 2, slide 6)

<jeanne> Template https://docs.google.com/document/d/1MGGgqgeL779aJu7iNuXQMHgJygV7l6GouM7--5ABJ5U/edit#heading=h.vx20z4iqr83a

jeanne: Going over template for the WCAG 2.x guideline breakdown

I need to ask for a scribe change at this point, please.

<jeanne> https://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG21/quickref/

<Wilco> scribe: Wilco

<ToddL> Thank you, Wilco.

<Rachael> +1 to working on the first one together

Jeanne: Last week AGWG put everyone in breakout rooms. This is a fairly small group, I wonder if we should break up or work together?
... I think there's value in working on one together
... Let's pick one.

<jeanne> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tXIaJxQCyuOTkvLcJR5QgTN13h6dIgtUlE7H9CUCvew/edit#gid=0

<Rachael> https://www.notion.so/nomensa/633121a1bcc94120833db2df302d8794?v=818fb138d19f42648d6d784ca90de239

Jeanne: If you scroll down the list, anyone that hasn't already been done?
... Want to tackle 1.3.1?

Rachael: I think it has been done
... Everything from 1.2.3 through 1.2.9 hasn't been done.

<sarahhorton_> Use of color!

Shawn: I think that's also a good one
... Focus more on process

Rachael: So 1.4.1 use of color

1.4.1 Use of Color

<Lauriat> 1.4.1 Use of Color <- https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG21/#use-of-color

<jeanne> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BHAwv1ZXbjedQinGopoOpgGgdiuBMFOfVeo6ujXH788/edit

Jeanne: So what are the functional needs for use of color?

<jeanne> Functional Needs doc https://docs.google.com/document/d/16ZeCqTRTY0lmWvp1Xv_wO0iH1OzyECBa1UXQ_UeocjQ/edit#heading=h.4jiwp8jpc143

Jeanne: Use without color and use with limited color perception
... Any disagreements or additions?

Shawn: Potentially use without vision?
... Something only conveyed through color and not through semantics.

Jeanne: Next, user needs
... Probably under Users can perceive content

Suzanne: Sarah suggested use with limited vision

Jeanne: In perceive, they can perceive content

Shawn: I think operable. If the keyboard focus or state is indicated only through color. It's understandable and operable

Jeanne: Any specific examples?

Sarah: I wonder if we're missing functional needs in respect to cognitive.
... In terms of controls and functionality.
... If it's only a red outline on an input field for example, the understandability of the interface might be effected.
... I wonder if we want to add a functional need for cognitive. Not sure which subgroup that falls under
... Learning or memory perhaps?

Shawn: Memory is a good one, some chart with color keys at the top, having to go back to which color means what

Jeanne: This is an overview to classify success criteria. It's not the deep user analysis.

Shawn: Lets move onto units

Jeanne: I don't think it's aggregate or user process, but it could be view

Wilco: I think it's component or view usually

Sarah: It could also be process, multi-step indicator

Shawn: I think you can determine if it's happening in a few, but can't score the severity of it without applying the process

Jeanne: Any arguments for the aggregate?

Shawn: Maybe scoring at the aggregate, not a test

Jeanne: Then test types. Is this ever objective?

Sarah: Can we test for the presence of color. That's the only objective thing if there is color or not

Shawn: We can also test the perceivability of the difference in color.
... It's something on how to rate the use of color

Sarah: All you can really do is test whether there is color. That seems hard to test objectively.
... It seems like there are certain uses of color that are objectively testable. But there are a whole lot that are conditional.

<Zakim> Makoto, you wanted to ask clarification about test types

Makoto: Objective means automatically testable? By an automated tool?
... Condition, not automatically testable but manually. Experts can determine if it passes or not.
... Could you clarify what test case means?

<Zakim> Rachael, you wanted to answer

Rachael: Test case is something that we can't consistency define. The result would not be consistent world wide.
... Anything language dependant for example. Simple voice in English and in another language are different.
... A test case is something we can't dictate universally.
... We might say an organisation has to state what reading level they're trying to achieve and then test against it.
... But we would not say everything must have some reading level.

Shawn: An example for this particular guideline. Use of color without underline to indicate a link.
... Checking to make sure something is semantically a link, it's essentially following the design system of the web.
... But if someone has their own design system that indicates focus by shifting the color, but also by showing a tool tip. It uses color, but also a component.
... It's not something standard on the web but something they could test for their organization.

<Zakim> Lauriat, you wanted to offer an example test case for this SC

Jeanne: I'd like to invite anyone who participated in this to pick up other success criteria.
... If we can get the spreadsheet updated so everything worked on is reflected in the sheet. We need to do them all.

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