Functional needs

03 March 2022


Jake, JakeAbma, Josh, Todd

Meeting minutes

Deceptive Patterns

<ToddL> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WKGPMiDL8CKcXWr0md09ZLwZEPdoxeNTNQsf8IuszqQ/edit#heading=h.6flbja9pmm8c

Todd: Would like some feedback

I started writing outcomes for deceptive patterns that harm users

Should they be broken into categories

<Josh, and Jake review>

JOC: What is the failed list?

Todd: I've gotten feedback from the community, on what maybe deceptive patterns

JOC: You think all these things fall under that category?

Todd: Yes

We could get some feedback about that list.

Some items may be out of scope

JOC: There may be greater context needed

Look at the hover example, very broad

JOC: So there are issues around context - the pattern in itself may be ok for some users but problematic for others

Todd: Yes

JOC: Do we need to then identify what are problems for people with disabilities?

Todd: I'd like to break this category into smaller pieces

JOC: I see these all over, a la double cookie banners

JOC: Jake?

JA: This is a great list

They can be grouped - and then based on that create the outcome text

That cover these scenarios - as an exercise. I suggest we go from top to bottom and review

JOC: Do we need to define intent for Deceptive patterns?

Todd: Yes, but it may not be intentional - could be just bad practice regardless

JA: I don't think that is up to us

JOC: I think we shouild review together - I'd like Michael to see this

Todd: +1, I'd like to weed some things out

Todd: I'd like to put non purposeful anti-patterns into its own list.

JOC: Lets review on Tues - will add that to agenda

JOC: There are a bunch of user functions there also

JA: They can be reviewed and distributed

JA: Then we can look at finding outcomes and then add

JOC: Sounds good.

<Jake gives over of new tag and formatting tweaks to Matrix>

JA: Overview of Summary Outcomes and mapping

We have some questions for Todd..

Regarding error prevention and anxiety prevention.

Around re-assuring remedy instructions

JA: I get that - they need to support the user

Is that a good fit?

Todd: Yes, good fit

Both Jake and Todd like 'reassuring instructions'

JA: What is meant by 'error message in consistent interface'?

Todd: That was a case where there is a multi step form..

JOC: Many sections that respond or change to input

Todd: Yeah

JA: Relates to 3.2.4 Consistent Identification

Todd: Or if the error message moves during validation

JA: Next week we can look at the moderated form input and Alert awareness items

JA: I have 6 others on preventing errors

Todd: I've a Q

When we started the errors doc, I noted there are lots of people who when they enter one character into an input field, an error is thrown?

JA: Is this like being shown errors when you are not done?

Todd: Yeah -

JA: This could go in deceptive pattern. Error instructions.

JOC: I've added that to the fails in our Deceptive Patterns doc

JA: Discusses 'Instructions' for Outcomes summary

JA: WHat about the relationship between a component and an error

JOC: What about component chunks? And related error prevention and presentation

Rather than errors on an <input> field level only - could be used in modular chunks? And WCAG could have an SC that covers this?

JA: Now we can remove 'Make recoverable'

JOC: As we have them covered

JA: I will add new Summary outcomes to the main sheet

JOC: Sounds good

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 185 (Thu Dec 2 18:51:55 2021 UTC).


Maybe present: JA, JOC