Meeting minutes
Deceptive Patterns
Todd: Would like some feedback
I started writing outcomes for deceptive patterns that harm users
Should they be broken into categories
<Josh, and Jake review>
JOC: What is the failed list?
Todd: I've gotten feedback from the community, on what maybe deceptive patterns
JOC: You think all these things fall under that category?
Todd: Yes
We could get some feedback about that list.
Some items may be out of scope
JOC: There may be greater context needed
Look at the hover example, very broad
JOC: So there are issues around context - the pattern in itself may be ok for some users but problematic for others
Todd: Yes
JOC: Do we need to then identify what are problems for people with disabilities?
Todd: I'd like to break this category into smaller pieces
JOC: I see these all over, a la double cookie banners
JOC: Jake?
JA: This is a great list
They can be grouped - and then based on that create the outcome text
That cover these scenarios - as an exercise. I suggest we go from top to bottom and review
JOC: Do we need to define intent for Deceptive patterns?
Todd: Yes, but it may not be intentional - could be just bad practice regardless
JA: I don't think that is up to us
JOC: I think we shouild review together - I'd like Michael to see this
Todd: +1, I'd like to weed some things out
Todd: I'd like to put non purposeful anti-patterns into its own list.
JOC: Lets review on Tues - will add that to agenda
JOC: There are a bunch of user functions there also
JA: They can be reviewed and distributed
JA: Then we can look at finding outcomes and then add
JOC: Sounds good.
<Jake gives over of new tag and formatting tweaks to Matrix>
JA: Overview of Summary Outcomes and mapping
We have some questions for Todd..
Regarding error prevention and anxiety prevention.
Around re-assuring remedy instructions
JA: I get that - they need to support the user
Is that a good fit?
Todd: Yes, good fit
Both Jake and Todd like 'reassuring instructions'
JA: What is meant by 'error message in consistent interface'?
Todd: That was a case where there is a multi step form..
JOC: Many sections that respond or change to input
Todd: Yeah
JA: Relates to 3.2.4 Consistent Identification
Todd: Or if the error message moves during validation
JA: Next week we can look at the moderated form input and Alert awareness items
JA: I have 6 others on preventing errors
Todd: I've a Q
When we started the errors doc, I noted there are lots of people who when they enter one character into an input field, an error is thrown?
JA: Is this like being shown errors when you are not done?
Todd: Yeah -
JA: This could go in deceptive pattern. Error instructions.
JOC: I've added that to the fails in our Deceptive Patterns doc
JA: Discusses 'Instructions' for Outcomes summary
JA: WHat about the relationship between a component and an error
JOC: What about component chunks? And related error prevention and presentation
Rather than errors on an <input> field level only - could be used in modular chunks? And WCAG could have an SC that covers this?
JA: Now we can remove 'Make recoverable'
JOC: As we have them covered
JA: I will add new Summary outcomes to the main sheet
JOC: Sounds good