Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference

03 March 2022


Fazio, Jennie, julierawe, JustineP, jxz, kirkwood, Le, lisas, Rain, rashmi, ShawnT
Albert Kim, David Swallow, John Rochford, Kris Anne

Meeting minutes

<lisas> agenda: Check in with sub-groups and action requests https://docs.google.com/document/d/15HtPkkYx1CIl6bAwP2nsSZKhqTVbqcuMDRz5RmtmvXg/edit

<lisas> agenmda+ The COGA Design Guided - Research and more information https://docs.google.com/document/d/1U3gdQesJHTmLZ2H62_23olZD3jZ-5SEMBZxhb-RsQsY/edit#heading=h.mxwk9an68v1m

scribe -please sign up https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/wiki/Scribe_list

<lisas> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/wiki/Scribe_list -- taken up [from lisas]

<lisas> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/wiki/Scribe_list -- taken up [from lisas]

JenniferZ: introducing herself, accessible program manager at microsoft, how do designers think about brain stuff, what can be assessed as net new and yes no measurable, products are pretty excited
… its such a big gap in WCAG like to get it solidified, its a long time missing

Lisa: i often give an orientation call if interested? and anyone else if want it

JenniferZ: yes please

Lisa: welcome to come if attend a previous one

<lisas> next item

Lisa: check in on subgroups, link to page

Lisa: EO one 5 mionute break then subgroup meeting

Rain: i have no other updates at moment, going to meet todetermine how to give feedback

Lisa: mobile task force

Rain: mobile is quite happy with feedback we gave them hre’s the link

<Rain> Link to working document for mobile task force feedback: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1lq0OZ4qwyLppH4qOcr1o8IaREg_HX276uye4lFq4Df4/edit

Rain: our working document for mobile task force feedback, have wheat they need at the moment
… once have time to process, it’s a working docoment anyone on this call feel free to add comments and notes

Rain: they are a smaller task force i would expect may or june for new material

Lisa: david you’re working on mental health subgroup

David: not much done

Lisa: a comforntabel for getting done for next week

Lisa: lets say 10th March to finish

Lisa: Jenny hows it going

Jennie: i have received email requesting access

Jennie: can’t see access, whoever contacted me should have access now

Jennie: Rain John and I met with Steve about images for content usable

<Le> brb

Lisa: what is next stage for guardianship draft

<Jennie> John K: I agree

Jennie: want COGA task force review for Michael then John K and i can review

Michael: wanted to share with legal team, timeline proposal, i proposed set of procedures.

<Le> back

Lisa: i’m going to put on agenda today, don’t know if going to get to it. hopefully integrate comments.

Lisa: two weeks time is that reasonable?

<lisas> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1oNrl_kghy8J1Pab-L1a_XNZr4YsIMrbEgYuttOCvtFo/edit#

Jennie: i think some new members to review.

Lisa: one more week to add comments and discuss for week after tidy up for legal review

<Le> please add my person email for permissions lm61613@gmail.com

Julie: can i make a suggestion to send a dedicated email to COGA team

<Le> perfect thanks Rain

Jennie: i will send an email link to document with one week to review to put comments in or discuss at next meeting

Julie: a few updated clear language page, protocols easy language group. plain language group in US. in UK

Julie: protocols group is doing plain language tomorrow at 9am

Julie: clear language examples submitting for pattern or method to submit any text to assess for each pattern we are looking at

<Jennie> *Nice! Yeah Rain!

Julie: Rain setting up google form to send out to COGA team to populate google doc

Julie: EO drafting alternative verson draft about Cognitve and Learning disbilities to fit EO template

Lisa: spoke to Michael about reaching out. there a formal liasons but doesn’t seem we have setup with that group

Lisa: we do have green light to reach out to send introductory email to get ball rolling

Michael: for coordinating with them that would be fine, wouldn’t assume. plain language on protocols looking at existing guidance as a protocol for WCAG 3 rather than as a method. if worried about plain language guidance or way work in

<Jennie> +1 to Julie's excitement that the protocols group is looking at plainlanguage.gov

Lisa: justine working on lit review

Justine: something to report next week

Le: one is done for lit review second for next week

<jxz> We submitted a research paper for our ND research. If that gets published I can share. There are a lot of references in it for your lit review

Rashmi: going well next week maybe can discuss, most studies are bout socila media can we have more, already have done 3 or 4 maybe can do more assign more, i will take more

<jxz> For the mental health track (we did a MH and ND research track), we did a full lit review too. There's a lot of interesting overlap between the two sets of guidelines

<lisas> next item

<lisas> close item 2

<ShawnT> This? https://centerforplainlanguage.org/2021-federal-plain-language-report-card/

Julie: quick question who did report cards?

<julierawe> Thank you, Shawn!

<lisas> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JXa94s2lbzJ0v9FHasxxws3CsOcljHHBdlQ2VOxYqAQ/edit#

yes ;)

I got from a meeting i attended of there’s

Lisa: coordinating with other groups, have a hard timeline, we must fit task to schedule only way to publish. we have a complex table, with 3 columns of backgroun, issue paper, test. jeeni wnats to see measurable goals what we have to do to get it done

Lisa; we call them KPI’s key performance indicators set realistic goals need to do analysis

Lisa: image supgroup working group, kpi for each objective of content usable. over next year 2 patterns for each one

<Rain> +1

Jennie: thank you for making these kpis. Rain an i deliverable. I’d like to put focus on good examples to make sure

Rain: i agree and Jennie and I will connect on timeline. Jennia and John and I will connect on images subgroup

Jennie: wondering if we could breakout good examples for each objective. bad examples for 2. some bad examples would be helpful to know as a place holder

Lisa: good examples exist for each objective and 2 bad examples at least are created

Jennie: thats ok with me

Julie: not knowing what edge cases are, ask for Rain for feedback is that something we can get through to finish for edge case

Rain: i think would be better in creation page, well done examles. given complesity its a good idea to be realistic edge cases can be in production not ocmpleted

Rain: too many examples can be too much information overload

+1 to Rain about examples issues

Lisa: especially patterns with edge cases having a wiki page on that, a link to page of examples we discussed easy language group may need a page for each breakout groupo examples, having edge cases worked out. we need to do this, need to know what requesting people to do, the examples help us do that

Lisa: i think we need it in not in image form

<Rain> +1 to it not always needing to be in image form

Julie: not under estimating all the work for this. Edge cases an inapplicable examples. might help for good and bad examples. what about edge cases. maybe if we think about how many patterns we can do a variety of examples for, there is clear language and access to help for Silver they want edge cases. other teams will be looking for that information.

Lisa: what we have written 2 patterns per objective that’s 16 they don’t need to be images. we could change to one pattern per objective, is that more doable

<julierawe> Rain, thanks for clarifying

Rain: maybe two conversations going on here. to julie we absolutely need to give examples of edge cases. this particular group is just adding illustrations into the document to help with understanding. want to make sure that the scope is clear. that is what this subgroup is doing right now. the work on images itself is so hard and complicated.

Lisa: like to clarify other exmaples are not all images subgroup

Lisa: kpi images subroup alone, good examples for each objective, doable for Silver, I think. at least 16 patterns not of which ones

<Rain> +1 yes, thank you

Lisa: there may be more from one objective and then another, is that reasonable?

JennIe: if still applying to stage 1 march 1011 to march 2023 don’t think `6 images is realistic to make publication ready and support goals for what COGA wants to accept timeline

Lisa: total of 10 images

Jennie: not images, need clarification needed

Lisa: 16 patterns with edge cases for Silver is tha ok Julie?

<Jennie> *Always good to underpromise, over deliver (smile)

Julie: maybe 10 if more doable 18 is feeling like a lot

Lisa: lets put in 10 maybe we can do more, we’ll see and edge case ones maybe needed like clear language ones

Lisa: we’ll need feedback from at least 3 community groups, Rain and Rahme is that reasonable?

Rain: yes

Rain: do think getting closer

Rashmi: we can do it, people are circulating forms to get feedback

Lisa: i’m seeing this KPI on communication if community isn’t happy we can change timeline

Rain: Rashme and i can bring b ack to community group

<Le> by slack channel did you mean the "a11y" channel?

Rain: i will see they are comfortable with timeline

<Rain> Action item for Rashmi: confirm with the community group (through our asynchronous communication channel) that the group is comfortable with the KPIs proposed on the timeline

<trackbot> Error finding 'item'. You can review and register nicknames at <https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/track/users>.

ACTION: rashmi to confirm with the community group (through our asynchronous communication channel) that the group is comfortable with the KPIs proposed on the timeline

<trackbot> Created ACTION-339 - Confirm with the community group (through our asynchronous communication channel) that the group is comfortable with the kpis proposed on the timeline [on Rashmi Katakwar - due 2022-03-10].

Lisa: people have lots of comments that usability of ‘content usable’ needs improvement. Needs to be easier to digest. The sooner we get on that the better regarding structure. KPI that the structure agreed upon over the next year

<ShawnT> I can help posting to the web

Lisa: comfortable with KPE to agree on structure over next year?


Lisa: conversation can continue with steve doesn’t have to affect official note

<EA> +1 to Julie and perhaps the web version should be our aim.... I am apologising as I should have been scribing, but a work commitment came up. I will double up in April.

Julie: question is we think web version easier rather than note. do we really need to redo note version as well as or rather than web version?

Lisa: we will have subgroup meeting on EO documents

<lisas> thanks ea

Jennie: related questions, restructure on comments received or quick usability reicew to see if changes easier for everyone, i have thoughts about qquestion to frame that conversaiton, maybe thats the way to move abead?

<Jennie> +1 to exploring

Lisa: this discussion is the action, web version, versus some changes, exploring it and decide structural changes, thats the KPE is we agree on what we want do do about structure, any objections to that undersatding to think about it?

<lisas> any objection to that kpi?

<Rain> RRSAgent: make minutes

EO review

<lisas> adding to https://docs.google.com/document/d/12m6eCwOSA8M_un0yRI6rHw8Gy9LzrAi6CGR7xUJ1CEA/edit

<lisas> talking about the cognative page

<julierawe> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XAE7hIEBkPUOWPQyB49jXTpSm5W62gFnX6QztL5Wi8U/edit#heading=h.n4rzvbbszkrk

<ShawnT> could it be their way to publish (CMS) that won't allow bullets?

+1 changed “and” to “or”?

Cognitve disabilities affect how a person stores, retrieves or uses information.

<julierawe> +1 to Le's comment

<Rain> +1 to Le's comment as well, but want to acknowledge that Julie is the one who raised this, not Rain

<jxz> Does something about "tracking information" fit here too?

<jxz> Thanks for welcoming me, see you later!

<Rain> have to drop, thank you so much!

may not identify as having cognitive disability due to social stigma

<ShawnT> welcome to the world of coga

<ShawnT> there's so much information on cognitive

<lisas> https://docs.google.com/document/d/19hM0yrnniybRkkLcNqMtX-W-dy5CJ2IIxKY44rpMFWs/edit?pli=1#

Summary of action items

  1. rashmi to confirm with the community group (through our asynchronous communication channel) that the group is comfortable with the KPIs proposed on the timeline
Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 185 (Thu Dec 2 18:51:55 2021 UTC).


Found 'Agenda:' not followed by a URL: 'Check in with sub-groups and action requests https://docs.google.com/document/d/15HtPkkYx1CIl6bAwP2nsSZKhqTVbqcuMDRz5RmtmvXg/edit'.

Maybe present: David, JenniferZ, Julie, Justine, Lisa, Michael, s