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13:58:01 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/03/03-coga-irc
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13:58:05 <trackbot> Meeting: Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
13:58:05 <trackbot> Date: 03 March 2022
13:59:27 <lisas> agenda: Check in with sub-groups and action requests https://docs.google.com/document/d/15HtPkkYx1CIl6bAwP2nsSZKhqTVbqcuMDRz5RmtmvXg/edit
13:59:44 <lisas> agenda+  Check in with sub-groups and action requests https://docs.google.com/document/d/15HtPkkYx1CIl6bAwP2nsSZKhqTVbqcuMDRz5RmtmvXg/edit
13:59:59 <lisas> agenda+  Update from AG and what’s coming up in surveys
14:00:17 <lisas>  agenda+ Review draft for COGA TF projects timeline
14:00:36 <lisas> agenda+ Review of EO content if draft is ready (see https://docs.google.com/document/d/12m6eCwOSA8M_un0yRI6rHw8Gy9LzrAi6CGR7xUJ1CEA/edit for what needs to be reviewed and discussed)
14:01:08 <lisas> agenmda+ The COGA Design Guided -  Research and more information https://docs.google.com/document/d/1U3gdQesJHTmLZ2H62_23olZD3jZ-5SEMBZxhb-RsQsY/edit#heading=h.mxwk9an68v1m
14:01:29 <lisas> agenda+ The COGA Design Guided -  Research and more information https://docs.google.com/document/d/1U3gdQesJHTmLZ2H62_23olZD3jZ-5SEMBZxhb-RsQsY/edit#heading=h.mxwk9an68v1m
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14:47:50 <lisas> agenda+ gardenship draft https://docs.google.com/document/d/1oNrl_kghy8J1Pab-L1a_XNZr4YsIMrbEgYuttOCvtFo/edit#
14:50:35 <lisas> agenda+ scribe -please sign up https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/wiki/Scribe_list
14:50:55 <lisas> zakim, please take up item 7
14:50:55 <Zakim> agendum 7 -- scribe -please sign up https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/wiki/Scribe_list -- taken up [from lisas]
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14:59:58 <Jennie> present+
15:00:00 <Fazio> present+
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15:01:40 <Rain> present+
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15:01:51 <ShawnT> present+
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15:02:55 <Le> present+
15:02:56 <lisas> scribe: kirkwood
15:03:02 <lisas> present+
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15:03:26 <kirkwood> present+
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15:04:57 <kirkwood> JenniferZ: introducing herself, accessible program manager at microsoft, how do designers think about brain stuff, what can be assessed as net new and yes no measurable, products are pretty excited
15:05:23 <kirkwood> … its such a big gap in WCAG like to get it solidified, its a long time missing
15:05:27 <rashmi> present+
15:05:57 <kirkwood> Lisa: i often give an orientation call if interested? and anyone else if want it
15:06:13 <kirkwood> JenniferZ: yes please
15:06:27 <kirkwood> Lisa: welcome to come if attend a previous one
15:06:30 <lisas> next item
15:06:50 <kirkwood> Lisa: check in on subgroups, link to page
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15:07:07 <kirkwood> Lisa: EO one 5 mionute break then subgroup meeting
15:07:37 <kirkwood> Rain: i have no other updates at moment, going to meet todetermine how to give feedback
15:07:53 <kirkwood> Lisa: mobile task force
15:08:13 <kirkwood> Rain: mobile is quite happy with feedback we gave them hre’s the link
15:08:28 <Rain> Link to working document for mobile task force feedback: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1lq0OZ4qwyLppH4qOcr1o8IaREg_HX276uye4lFq4Df4/edit
15:08:41 <kirkwood> Rain: our working document for mobile task force feedback, have wheat they need at the moment
15:09:14 <kirkwood> … once have time to process, it’s a working docoment anyone on this call feel free to add comments and notes
15:09:59 <kirkwood> Rain: they are a smaller task force i would expect may or june for new material
15:10:20 <kirkwood> Lisa: david you’re working on mental health subgroup
15:10:26 <kirkwood> David: not much done
15:10:41 <kirkwood> Lisa: a comforntabel for getting done for next week
15:10:55 <kirkwood> Lisa: lets say 10th March to finish
15:10:59 <jxz> present+
15:11:12 <kirkwood> Lisa: Jenny hows it going
15:11:31 <kirkwood> Jennie: i have received email requesting access
15:12:07 <kirkwood> Jennie: can’t see access, whoever contacted me should have access now
15:12:27 <kirkwood> Jennie: Rain John and I met with Steve about images for content usable
15:12:48 <Le> brb
15:12:57 <kirkwood> Lisa: what is next stage for guardianship draft
15:13:38 <MichaelC> Q+
15:13:44 <Jennie> John K: I agree
15:13:52 <kirkwood> Jennie: want COGA task force review for Michael then John K and i can review
15:13:53 <Rain> regrets+ David Swallow, Albert Kim, John Rochford, Kris Anne
15:14:39 <kirkwood> Michael: wanted to share with legal team, timeline proposal, i proposed set of procedures.
15:14:43 <MichaelC> ack me
15:15:00 <Le> back
15:15:16 <kirkwood> Lisa: i’m going to put on agenda today, don’t know if going to get to it. hopefully integrate comments.
15:15:44 <kirkwood> Lisa: two weeks time is that reasonable?
15:16:00 <lisas> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1oNrl_kghy8J1Pab-L1a_XNZr4YsIMrbEgYuttOCvtFo/edit#
15:16:00 <kirkwood> Jennie: i think some new members to review.
15:16:26 <julierawe> q+
15:16:35 <kirkwood> Lisa: one more week to add comments and discuss for week after tidy up for legal review
15:16:49 <Le> please add my person email for permissions lm61613@gmail.com
15:17:14 <julierawe> q-
15:17:22 <kirkwood> Julie: can i make a suggestion to send a dedicated email to COGA team
15:17:23 <Le> perfect thanks Rain
15:17:53 <kirkwood> Jennie: i will send an email link to document with one week to review to put comments in or discuss at next meeting
15:19:00 <kirkwood> Julie: a few updated clear language page, protocols easy language group. plain language group in US. in UK
15:19:14 <MichaelC> q+
15:19:20 <kirkwood> Julie: protocols group is doing plain language tomorrow at 9am
15:19:53 <kirkwood> Julie: clear language examples submitting for pattern or method to submit any text to assess for each pattern we are looking at
15:20:14 <Jennie> *Nice! Yeah Rain!
15:20:27 <kirkwood> … Rain setting up google form to send out to COGA team to populate google doc
15:21:01 <kirkwood> Julie: EO drafting alternative verson draft about Cognitve and Learning disbilities to fit EO template
15:21:52 <kirkwood> Lisa: spoke to Michael about reaching out. there a formal liasons but doesn’t seem we have setup with that group
15:22:27 <kirkwood> Lisa: we do have green light to reach out to send introductory email to get ball rolling
15:23:45 <MichaelC> ack me
15:23:53 <kirkwood> Michael: for coordinating with them that would be fine, wouldn’t assume. plain language on protocols looking at existing guidance as a protocol for WCAG 3 rather than as a method. if worried about plain language guidance or way work in
15:24:26 <Jennie> +1 to Julie's excitement that the protocols group is looking at plainlanguage.gov
15:24:49 <lisas> q?
15:25:46 <kirkwood> Lisa: justine working on lit review
15:26:17 <julierawe> q+
15:26:19 <kirkwood> Justine: something to report next week
15:26:49 <kirkwood> Le: one is done for lit review second for next week
15:27:32 <jxz> We submitted a research paper for our ND research. If that gets published I can share. There are a lot of references in it for your lit review
15:27:52 <kirkwood> Rashmi: going well next week maybe can discuss, most studies are bout socila media can we have  more, already have done 3 or 4 maybe can do more assign more, i will take more
15:28:01 <lisas> ack next
15:28:28 <jxz> For the mental health track (we did a MH and ND research track), we did a full lit review too. There's a lot of interesting overlap between the two sets of guidelines
15:28:37 <lisas> next item
15:28:46 <lisas> close item 2
15:28:51 <ShawnT> This? https://centerforplainlanguage.org/2021-federal-plain-language-report-card/
15:28:58 <kirkwood> Julie: quick question who did report cards?
15:29:21 <julierawe> Thank you, Shawn!
15:29:22 <lisas> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JXa94s2lbzJ0v9FHasxxws3CsOcljHHBdlQ2VOxYqAQ/edit#
15:29:42 <EA> EA has joined #coga
15:29:47 <kirkwood> yes ;)
15:30:10 <kirkwood> I got from a meeting i attended of there’s
15:32:06 <kirkwood> Lisa: coordinating with other groups, have a hard timeline, we must fit task to schedule only way to publish. we have a complex table, with 3 columns of backgroun, issue paper, test. jeeni wnats to see measurable goals what we have to do to get it done
15:32:52 <kirkwood> Lisa; we call them KPI’s key performance indicators set realistic goals need to do analysis
15:32:56 <lisas> Q?
15:33:16 <Jennie> q+
15:33:50 <lisas> ack next
15:33:52 <kirkwood> Lisa: image supgroup working group, kpi for each objective of content usable. over next year 2 patterns for each one
15:34:36 <Rain> +1
15:35:05 <kirkwood> Jennie: thank you for making these kpis. Rain an i deliverable. I’d like to put focus on good examples to make sure
15:35:45 <kirkwood> Rain: i agree and Jennie and I will connect on timeline. Jennia and John and I will connect on images subgroup
15:36:32 <julierawe> q+
15:36:57 <kirkwood> Jennie: wondering if we could breakout good examples for each objective. bad examples for 2. some bad examples would be helpful to know as a place holder
15:37:43 <kirkwood> Lisa: good examples exist for each objective and 2 bad examples at least are created
15:38:29 <kirkwood> Jennie: thats ok with me
15:39:20 <kirkwood> Julie: not knowing what edge cases are, ask for Rain for feedback is that something we can get through to finish for edge case
15:40:16 <kirkwood> Rain: i think would be better in creation page, well done examles. given complesity its a good idea to be realistic edge cases can be in production not ocmpleted
15:40:38 <kirkwood> Rain: too many examples can be too much information overload
15:41:00 <kirkwood> +1 to Rain about examples issues
15:42:21 <kirkwood> Lisa: especially patterns with edge cases having a wiki page on that, a link to page of examples we discussed easy language group may need a page for each breakout groupo examples, having edge cases worked out. we need to do this, need to know what requesting people to do, the examples help us do that
15:42:39 <kirkwood> Lisa: i think we need it in not in image form
15:42:43 <Rain> +1 to it not always needing to be in image form
15:43:33 <lisas> ack next
15:45:08 <Rain> q+
15:45:16 <kirkwood> Julie: not under estimating all the work for this. Edge cases an inapplicable examples. might help for good and bad examples. what about edge cases. maybe if we think about how many patterns we can do a variety of examples for, there is clear language and access to help for Silver they want edge cases. other teams will be looking for that information.
15:45:59 <kirkwood> Lisa: what we have written 2 patterns per objective that’s 16 they don’t need to be images. we could change to one pattern per objective, is that more doable
15:45:59 <lisas> ack next
15:47:54 <julierawe> Rain, thanks for clarifying
15:47:55 <kirkwood> Rain: maybe two conversations going on here. to julie we absolutely need to give examples of edge cases. this particular group is just adding illustrations into the document to help with understanding. want to make sure that the scope is clear. that is what this subgroup is doing right now. the work on images itself is so hard and complicated.
15:48:18 <kirkwood> Lisa: like to clarify other exmaples are not all images subgroup
15:49:37 <Jennie> q+
15:49:43 <kirkwood> Lisa: kpi images subroup alone, good examples for each objective, doable for Silver, I think. at least 16 patterns not of which ones
15:49:59 <Rain> +1 yes, thank you
15:50:04 <Rain> ack Jennie
15:50:08 <kirkwood> … there may be more from one objective and then another, is that reasonable?
15:51:07 <kirkwood> JennIe: if still applying to stage 1 march 1011 to march 2023 don’t think `6 images is realistic to make publication ready and support goals for what COGA wants to accept timeline
15:51:28 <kirkwood> Lisa: total of 10 images
15:51:48 <kirkwood> Jennie: not images, need clarification needed
15:52:09 <kirkwood> Lisa: 16 patterns with edge cases for Silver is tha ok Julie?
15:52:22 <Jennie> *Always good to underpromise, over deliver (smile)
15:52:28 <kirkwood> Julie: maybe 10 if more doable 18 is feeling like a lot
15:53:02 <kirkwood> Lisa: lets put in 10 maybe we can do more, we’ll see and edge case ones maybe needed like clear language ones
15:53:50 <kirkwood> Lisa: we’ll  need feedback from at least 3 community groups, Rain and Rahme is that reasonable?
15:53:53 <kirkwood> Rain: yes
15:54:35 <kirkwood> Rain: do think getting closer
15:54:57 <kirkwood> Rashmi: we can do it, people are circulating forms to get feedback
15:55:37 <kirkwood> Lisa: i’m seeing this KPI on communication if community isn’t happy we can change timeline
15:55:54 <kirkwood> Rain: Rashme and i can bring b ack to community group
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15:56:37 <Le> by slack channel did you mean the "a11y" channel?
15:57:30 <kirkwood> Rain: i will see they are comfortable with timeline
15:57:48 <Rain> Action item for Rashmi: confirm with the community group (through our asynchronous communication channel) that the group is comfortable with the KPIs proposed on the timeline
15:57:48 <trackbot> Error finding 'item'. You can review and register nicknames at <https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/track/users>.
15:58:38 <Rain> action: rashmi to confirm with the community group (through our asynchronous communication channel) that the group is comfortable with the KPIs proposed on the timeline
15:58:38 <trackbot> Created ACTION-339 - Confirm with the community group (through our asynchronous communication channel) that the group is comfortable with the kpis proposed on the timeline [on Rashmi Katakwar - due 2022-03-10].
15:59:12 <kirkwood> Lisa: people have lots of comments that usability of ‘content usable’ needs improvement. Needs to be easier to digest. The sooner we get on that the better regarding structure. KPI that the structure agreed upon over the next year
15:59:45 <ShawnT> I can help posting to the web
15:59:45 <julierawe> q+
15:59:46 <lisas> ack next
15:59:47 <Jennie> q+
15:59:53 <kirkwood> Lisa: comfortable with KPE to agree on structure over next year?
16:00:17 <kirkwood> s:KPE/KPI
16:00:56 <kirkwood> Lisa: conversation can continue with steve doesn’t have to affect official note
16:01:28 <EA> +1 to Julie and perhaps the web version should be our aim.... I am apologising as I should have been scribing, but a work commitment came up. I will double up in April.
16:01:38 <kirkwood> Julie: question is we think web version easier rather than note. do we really need to redo note version as well as or rather than web version?
16:02:06 <kirkwood> Lisa: we will have subgroup meeting on EO documents
16:02:12 <lisas> thanks ea
16:03:02 <kirkwood> Jennie: related questions, restructure on comments received or quick usability reicew to see if changes easier for everyone, i have thoughts about qquestion to frame that conversaiton, maybe thats the way to move abead?
16:03:32 <Jennie> +1 to exploring
16:04:03 <kirkwood> Lisa: this discussion is the action, web version, versus some changes, exploring it and decide structural changes, thats the KPE is we agree on what we want do do about structure, any objections to that undersatding to think about it?
16:04:18 <lisas> any objection to that kpi?
16:04:22 <Jennie> ack Jennie
16:04:37 <Rain> RRSAgent: make minutes
16:04:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/03/03-coga-minutes.html Rain
16:05:00 <lisas> rrsagent, make minutes
16:05:00 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/03/03-coga-minutes.html lisas
16:05:19 <lisas> topic: EO review
16:11:08 <lisas> adding to https://docs.google.com/document/d/12m6eCwOSA8M_un0yRI6rHw8Gy9LzrAi6CGR7xUJ1CEA/edit
16:11:49 <lisas> talking about the cognative page
16:12:01 <julierawe> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XAE7hIEBkPUOWPQyB49jXTpSm5W62gFnX6QztL5Wi8U/edit#heading=h.n4rzvbbszkrk
16:20:57 <ShawnT> could it be their way to publish (CMS) that won't allow bullets?
16:24:00 <kirkwood> +1  changed “and” to “or”?
16:26:52 <kirkwood> Cognitve disabilities affect how a person stores, retrieves or uses information.
16:29:04 <julierawe> +1 to Le's comment
16:29:33 <Rain> +1 to Le's comment as well, but want to acknowledge that Julie is the one who raised this, not Rain
16:33:37 <jxz> Does something about "tracking information" fit here too?
16:40:05 <jxz> Thanks for welcoming me, see you later!
16:55:07 <Rain> have to drop, thank you so much!
16:59:40 <kirkwood> may not identify as having cognitive disability due to social stigma
17:03:46 <ShawnT> welcome to the world of coga
17:05:55 <ShawnT> there's so much information on cognitive
17:09:20 <lisas> https://docs.google.com/document/d/19hM0yrnniybRkkLcNqMtX-W-dy5CJ2IIxKY44rpMFWs/edit?pli=1#
17:18:30 <lisas> rrsagent, make minutes
17:18:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/03/03-coga-minutes.html lisas