03 March 2022


harris, Irfan_, MarkMcCarthy, melsumner, myasonik, pkra, scotto, StefanS, valerie_young
BryanGaraventa, JoanmarieDiggs
chlane, clane

Meeting minutes

<jamesn> regrets CurtBellew

<chlane> melsumner: has a suggestion for the group

New Issue Triage

#1697 can't wait until 1.4

scotto will work with matt

New PR Triage

scotto some prs are waiting

ping editors

should not need a agenda topic

reminder to reviews

<pkra> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pulls

<scotto> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pulls

need list shared, or check repo

<melsumner> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pulls?q=is%3Apr+is%3Aopen+user-review-requested%3A%40me

review/reviewer syntax? see mels link

Deep Dive planning

no deep dive next week

is it useful for the agenda

schedule ad hocs if needed?

melsumner: would like to do deep dive on

<melsumner> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1353 in two weeks

should aria provide better support for routing in spas

jamesn: will schedule

Advance warning - Daylight savings time changes starts soon. Meeting on March 17 may be a different time for you.

US moves forward

StefanS: secondary actions deepdive suggested

sarah has been working on it just got back to vacation

week after next may be diff time

europe may be diff time

TPAC - any more thoughs? Any information anyone needs which would help make a decision if you would attend in-person vs remote?

contact jamesn if you need info for personal reasons like has the conf center improved ventilation?

any questions to change decision aske jamesn now

<Laurence_Lewis> My company is not funding overseas travel this year, so would like to attend remotely.

video conferencing will be good

so you can see the folks in the room

also better microphones

not passing mics around

better room size choicrs

improved virtual attendance experience

more breaks/social

to improve virtual expereince

people want to see each other in person

survey will go out

<melsumner> I'm excited to plan to attend

hotel is downtown fun

matt likes

Special Teleconference - LE updates

next Wed west coast 7am boston, Leoni taking about W3C transition to a legal entity

can attend if you want to

big deal

move to updated model

MichaelC: 4 universities

affects MichaelC mainly

matt any implications for wgs?

MichaelC: hard to tell, MIT is saying put your money where your mouth is

Dedication section for Carolyn

dedication for Carolyn in 1.2

<MarkMcCarthy> Janina's proposed text: This version of the ARIA specification is dedicated to the memory of Carolyn MacLeod whose contributions our Working Group sees throughout the document. She graced our work with equanimity and sagacity, and her untimely passing will long be missed by our community.

<melsumner> +100

jamesn: presuming it can go forward with text from Janina

<pkra> +100

<MarkMcCarthy> 💯


<spectranaut> +100

keep on going

jamesn: we will need to go through her PRs you are welcome

<spectranaut> thanks everyone for sharing your thoughts, though I didn't know her, I can feel her inspiration and effect <3

Handling Author Errors: form & region roles

1683 scotto say we have a PR

MichaelC: invite chlane@vmware.com to group thanks

Inconsistency between native and ARIA listboxes when implicit aria-selected is provided - someone needs to take this PR over

<jamesn> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1682

Should form-with-name map to IA2_ROLE_LANDMARK?

assigned to scotto

Initial aria-textseparation

matt wants to work on it, did early work on proposal

matt, big lift for user agents jamesn punt to 1.4

scotto: related to punting on inline generic vs block generic

UA/AT understanding block or inline and adjusting announcement

scotto: clarify in core AAM

jamesn: not an element thing

scotto: need css AAM

matt we sort of started

Ian was going to work on it but a big can of worms

historically onlys some screen readers consider CSS

a lot of things will break

if we dont think at the element level

link w/ mult divs

regardlees of styling

seperated in virtual buffer

if lumped together

in those cases I'm not sure how link names are processed

jamesn: do you have test pages?

scotto: more nuanced

navigating by link may hear a single string rather than indivual links

matt, words munched together

works like a feature in a lot of places

this is where text separation allows authors to control AT experience intentionally and not match the visual experience

links vs buttons

melsumner: exploration everlasting links vs buttons

gaps, use of CTA's

need to visually be prominent but usually go to a URL

boring discussion

can we ask browesers and ATs to treat them the same

matt, links are very different

becauser they have an href with context menu

things presented as links without those features

jamesn: all be buttons

<jcraig> q late jcr

StefanS: links for nav, buttons can do actions and nav

just becuase it is possible

<siri_> example is Add to cart

like climbing mountains, scotto

devs will do a variety of thinks

boring, but agree with comments from stefan and matt that there are perceptual differences for sighted users

melsumner: links that looks like buttons

<siri_> +1 James

scotto: could be a net loss

melsumner: can make it do the correct thing underneath

what about the keyboard only user?

that button that is really a link won't work with spacebar

how do we do this?


framework dev is doing the right thing and automatically add the spacebar suppor


make is as easy on the user and dev as possible

both from the AT and Framework

user > author > implementert

<siri_> "Shop now" looks like a button but it is a link.

melsumner: if i told my team, its ok to address spacebar support to link

jcraig: "spacebar for all links" would also be a reasonable choice for a framework developer to make as a default on behalf of app devs

jcraig: links and buttons a lot of middle cases

go with visual look

link pops up a dialog

is that a link or button?

buttons that navigate

<melsumner> for clarity, we aren't struggling with url (links) vs buttons (actions)- it's more that I think it could be useful to have links and buttons both respond to SPACEBAR and ENTER (that would be the very narrow scope)

cyns: wonder if links responding to spacebar is a good idea?

melsumner: would like links and buttons to respond to spacebar and enter

jcraig: leading in that topic

proposed something similar to iOS traits; something can be both a link and a button

no path in aria

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 185 (Thu Dec 2 18:51:55 2021 UTC).


Succeeded: s/wC3 transition/W3C transition

Succeeded: s/spacebar for all links/"spacebar for all links" would also be a reasonable choice for a framework developer to make as a default on behalf od app devs/

Succeeded: s/od/of/

Succeeded: s/ ios traits/ iOS traits; something can be both a link and a button/

Maybe present: cyns, jamesn, jcraig, MichaelC