Meeting minutes
<addison> trackbot, prepare teleconference
addison: Our W3C calendar needs editing. Seems difficult to just extend the dates... I may have to send feature requests. :-)
Agenda Review
Action Items
<addison> https://
action-1094?
<trackbot> action-1094: Addison Phillips to Start conversation with ecma-402 et al about webidl work -- due 2021-11-11 -- OPEN
addison: Will get explainer done this week.
action-1097?
<trackbot> action-1097: Addison Phillips to Codify epub's character restrictions as guidance for specdev -- due 2021-11-25 -- OPEN
<addison> close action-1097
<trackbot> Closed action-1097.
addison: On agenda for later.
action-1098?
<trackbot> action-1098: Richard Ishida to Review lang-bidi-use-cases for clarity of use cases of specific override -- due 2021-11-25 -- OPEN
r12a: Not done, will look over next week.
action-1100?
<trackbot> action-1100: Addison Phillips to Move and close unassigned with support from r12a -- due 2021-11-25 -- OPEN
<David> zakim present+
addison: Only thing left seems to close items under "awaiting comment resoluttion"
<addison> close action-1100
<trackbot> Closed action-1100.
addison: Maybe need actions for shepherds to close their own items.,
ACTION: addison: remind shepherds to tend to their awaiting comment resolutions
<trackbot> Created ACTION-1109 - Remind shepherds to tend to their awaiting comment resolutions [on Addison Phillips - due 2022-01-27].
action-1103?
<trackbot> action-1103: Addison Phillips to File issue with tag to discuss fate of lang/dir metadata and prepare explainer -- due 2021-12-09 -- OPEN
action-1104?
<trackbot> action-1104: Addison Phillips to Respond to dom's thread after xfq forwards note -- due 2021-12-09 -- OPEN
addison: Trying to do that today.
action-1108?
<trackbot> action-1108: Addison Phillips to Create naur review item -- due 2022-01-20 -- OPEN
<addison> close action-1108
<trackbot> Closed action-1108.
Info Share
Eemeli introduces himself.
Expects work on DOM localization and other things. Based in Finland.
r12a: I wanted to ask about DOM localization?
eemeli: Abstraction we'd like to push about declarative syntaxes.
… Attributes that can pull resources.
… We have something like that already at Mozilla, which we'd like to make a standard.
… And make it more accessible and more standard.
… Make it easier and declarative.
r12a: Aware of ITS? Not exactly the same, but maybe interesting.
eemeli: Not quite the same, indeed.
addison: It can help identify where the localizable parts are. You talk more about where to get the localized content itself from.
r12a: Localization needs additional metadata for translator or processor and that is what ITS mostly looks at.
eemeli: That is likely to be wrapped into Unicode message format we're working on.
r12a: ITS took wings with xliff. Your DOM localization may bring in more things.
… You might want to have a look at it.
RADAR Review
<addison> https://
<r12a> https://
addison: 2 incoming items. 1st is NAUR, due March (arbitrarily)
Bert: I can do that one.
addison: 2nd is CSS conditional, also due in March
atsushi: I'm interested.
commit updates to specdev
<addison> https://
<r12a> https://
addison: Discovered we also had a related old action, which I combined with this.
r12a: To recap for new participants: This doc is a collection of dos and donts for spec writers.
addison: I edited section 5.6
r12a: Change title to "Working with file and path names"? Leaves scope for more.
addison: I can do that.
r12a: It doesn't say why file names should be restricted to 255 bytes.
addison: Comes from DOS. I can add that.
… Much comes from EPUB, with minor rewording.
… But I can add explanations.
r12a: Missing name for character e0001.
addison: I think it was originally a range...
David: Are these DOS restrictions still relevant?
addison: EPUB uses them because ZIP files still have the same restrictions.
Changes to 5.6 accepted.
addison: Other section is 9.6.1
r12a: I was confused whether it was about exceptions to the previous section. Suggest "Working with errors and exceptions".
… Wording: localizable content vs natural language text. Are we applying those correctly?
… Natural language text is kind of hand-waiving, but localizable text should be precise.
addison: I'm happy to visit individual instances of the terms. Or do you want to talk about the terms themselves?
… We have a separate glossary document I'd like to put the items there.
r12a: The terms are there already. I suggest we indeed pull the glossary out of this best practices doc.
<r12a> https://
<addison> https://
<addison> move note up and link to glossary document, remove rest of glossary
<r12a> note at https://
r12a: Might be useful to move the note from the glossary section to the top of the doc and link from it to the glossary document.
r12a: "content" sounds a bit strange. Maybe "localizable strings"?
addison: Not all strings are localizable.
David: And some things that are not strings are still localizable, such as images.
addison: If one were to translate a document, what would one expect to see changed? That's the content we're referring to.
r12a: Text that the user will see.
addison: I can add "or strings" if that makes it clearer.
… I will have a conversation with the TAG, related to my action item.
r12a: Adding "strings" will be useful to explain things to people.
ACTION: addison: add "... and strings" to glossary definition of localizable content
<trackbot> Created ACTION-1110 - Add "... and strings" to glossary definition of localizable content [on Addison Phillips - due 2022-01-27].
r12a: Should we replace "localizable content" with "locallizable text"?
addison: No, we don't mean all text, not the tags, e.g,
David: Localizable content can be videos.
r12a: I mean _localizable_ text (stress on localizable), not all text.
addison: There is a discussion about localizable PNG (or some of the data in it), which is a binary format...
r12a: Let me do the edits to the glossary.
addison: I will edit the best practices.
<r12a> mojibake
addison: Should we make an issue or pull request about mojibake?
r12a: A pull request.
r12a: 3.1 uses "localizable" content in the second mustard and natural language in the first, is that consistent?
addison: I think localizable content.
About "content" vs "text"
David: I think here it is "localizable text".
addison: If I make the edits, will the links to the glossary be broken at first?
r12a: We shouldn't worry about that, we'll fix that later.
<r12a> String meta is https://
AOB?
<addison> https://
atsushi: Text extension in PNG: shouldn't we recommend to use itxt instead and deprecate the latin-1 text extension?
addison: Two problems: 1) use Unicode text extension (iTXT) when you can, but 2) the other extension still exists and thus should be well-defined.
… Historical reasons for the latin-1 encoding, it was a hack to pass bytes through.
… But update to PNG breaks that hack, because certain bytes become forbidden.
<r12a> s/<eemeli[m]> Answering my own earlier question: Yes, a bridge is available as `#irc.w3.org_#i18n:w3ctag.org`.//
<r12a> s/<eemeli> Is there a Matrix bridge for this channel available somewhere? I see some w3c IRC channels on matrix.org, but not this one.//