Silver Reliability

18 Jan 2022


Francis, Jeanne, Wilco, Daniel


Presentation of current work

Wilco: Group generally in favor of language of block
... Some provided feedback, we are waiting for concrete examples
... Specially when specific smaller blocks should and should not matter

Jeanne: Need for AT standardization. Maybe we need to write something advising how AT should behave

Wilco: Isn't it what Shawn mentioned last week about some user agents including this themselves?

Jeanne: Let's further investigate this with him

Francis: Did people like it then?

Jeanne: Yes.

Wilco: Let's see what happens in AGWG

Back to Work on Edge Cases

<jeanne> https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=889370

<Francis_Storr> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1onytB133NRc1EXEOVPizcOqeTi70r2JUcba-LgUyKEY/edit#heading=h.fw3gu387mgyl

Francis: Are we good with the edge cases as they are?

Wilco: I think so
... Next step for us would be to come up with a draft text to our outcome

[Group discusses draft outcome wording for the above document]]

Proposal: "Blocks of text can be presented in their natural language by assistive technologies."

Wilco: There might be plainer takes, but would they loose meaning?

Jeanne: They should not.

[[Discussion of simpler language]]

Proposal: Assistive technologies can present blocks of text in their natural language

Wilco: This make sentence more difficult to scan

Francis: We may end up with a lot of outocmes starting with "assistive technologies"

Wilco: Programmatic language we should remove
... We started requiring "lang", but now that is just one way of doing things
... Next is to have a definition.

Francis: We have that definition already

Wilco: Where did we get this from?
... I am missing a written only language example

Francis: French could be spoken or written

Wilco: That one looks fine. "Blocks of text" is worrying

Jeanne: We need an HTML5 example.
... We got these from somewhere, we should attribute those

Wilco: I don't know where I got these
... I think Natural Language is defined in the internationalization glossary

Jeanne: We should put where this is coming from

<Wilco> https://www.w3.org/TR/i18n-glossary/#def_natural_language

Wilco: This is much shorter

Jeanne: Let's leave this for now

Wilco: Will add a note to come back to this later
... In this sentence assistive technologies should be defined

Francis: We need a definition for blocks of text

Wilco: I think we have a definition of assistive technoloes somewhere

<Wilco> https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG21/#dfn-assistive-technologies

Blocks of text Definition

Wilco: Maybe the way to define it is in terms of what it is not. Any text that isn't part of a paragraph is not a block of text

<Wilco> Any natural language text that isn’t part of a larger sentence or paragraph.

Wilco: I think that definition might work, the thing is if "blocks" is the right word at this point
... Links inside sentences would not be blocks of text
... Probably "text blocks" is better. Puts the emphasis on text

Daniel: As long as this does not change the overall meaning, I am good with this.

Jeanne: "Label" is very HTML specific

Wilco: We could leave this out

[[Work continues in the document]]

Jeanne: We can't put lang on the image

Wilco: You could put it on the image

Jeanne: I think ATs would ignore it

Francis: That is an edge case.

Wilco: Will add to our examples

<jeanne> HTML5 reference for img element https://dev.w3.org/html5/html-author/#the-img-element

Francis: If you have a set of images inside the same paragraph with different lang values, would this definition be covering this?

Wilco: We could do without paragraph

Jeanne: According to HTML5, lang is not a valid attribute for the image tag
... seems very old, we should probabbly not be using this

Francis: Lang is a global attribute

<Wilco> https://html.spec.whatwg.org/#global-attributes

Next Week

Wilco: Next step is simplify where we can
... We may want to work on some methods during the week
... Can we set something up on a repo so we can work directly in it?

Francis: not sure

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

[End of minutes]

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.200 (CVS log)
$Date: 2022/01/18 15:52:14 $

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Present: Francis, Jeanne, Wilco, Daniel
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