Accessible Platform Architectures Working Group Teleconference

12 January 2022


janina, jasonjgw, Joshue, Joshue108, Lionel_Wolberger, scott_h, SteveNoble

Meeting minutes

Inaccessibility of CAPTCHA.

Introductions all around for Lionel Wolberger

LW: used to be active in verifiable identity work

LW: concerned about privacy issues in the online world

jasonjgw: Lionel's experience and background will be helpful for our CAPTCHA work

jasonjgw: A recent commentator suggested connecting to more recent CAPTCHA technologies

jasonjgw: Was also an issue around the document structure; we may need to organize the document differently

janina: Proposing a major focus shift

janina: General APA discussion was positive

janina: Suggest that we have enough technologies that can determine human authenticity

janina: Starting with reCAPTCHA 3 this is essentially fully automated

janina: Should identify older technologies as legacy

janina: New technologies like Cloudfare can be promoted as newer less-burdensome authentication techniques

janina: Individual websites should not take this role but leave it to the user agent

janina: Rewrite the CAPTCHA document so that the burden in placed on the user agent

janina: If we can shift the burden, this would help push the agenda to end CAPTCHA

scott_h: Generally like this approach

scott_h: A practical method example would be useful

janina: I am now using the user agent approach, although I still come across websites with legacy technology

scott_h: Does the user have to install this?

janina: The idea is that this becomes seamless and the user agent typically takes care of this without further human intervention

scott_h: What about email and multi-factor authentications?

Raja: Question on biometrics validations; it becomes a barrier

janina: Yes...we need to add this. For example where a phone system relies on a human voice

janina: Different user options will be important

Lionel_Wolberger: We have the industry on our side, because they want less hassle for the consumer; but they also don't want bots

Lionel_Wolberger: difference between verifying your identity and authenticating your humanity

Lionel_Wolberger: Pointing to new techniques is important

Lionel_Wolberger: The server sends a variety of handshakes, this has been done for years

Lionel_Wolberger: Not suggesting that we encourage thinngs that lower privacy, like location information

Lionel_Wolberger: Co-publishing will be a useful and important step

Lionel_Wolberger: Would like to have a trust-list protocol

Lionel_Wolberger: CAPTCHA doesn't really figure out if you are a human, but rather tries to determine that you are not a bot

jasonjgw: Importance of keeping personal information protected is what we want to stress

<Lionel_Wolberger> +1 to anonymous proofs of "i am not a bot"

jasonjgw: New technologies like Cloudfare seem to make this possible

<Lionel_Wolberger> +1 to using other W3C technologies like Verifiable Credentials, Distributed Identifiers, Webauthn

jasonjgw: May need to think about how making a number of various options both helps and complicates things

janina: Suggest that we think about this discussion before proceeding

Lionel_Wolberger: Plan to come next week; let's continue then

janina: Sounds like we have a good direction

jasonjgw: Will put this on the top of the agenda next time

Accessibility of remote Meetings.

scott_h: Gotten my head around GitHub and making progress

scott_h: Josh is helping me on getting up to speed

scott_h: Took all the COGA comments and separated into individual issues on GitHub

scott_h: The suggested edits seem reasonable

scott_h: Not sure if we need specific COGA section in the document

scott_h: Comes to about 10 issues in GistHub so far

scott_h: Look at a few now if we can

<Joshue108> guidance recommended for Braille support in remote meeting software.

<Joshue108> #257 https://github.com/w3c/apa/issues/257

scott_h: Issue around braille display inclusion

janina: Many times the industry lumps together speech and braille output

janina: But you might want the braille display to show who is speaking while the attendee is listening to the person's voice on the meeting

janina: Also for deaf users using a braille display

Joshue108: Would like to spell out this sort of use case in our document

jasonjgw: This type of use case may be supported currently for if users can focus on the correct element

jasonjgw: Not suggesting that we pinpoint where the support needs to come from

janina: Not sure if I agree; don't want to throw this only on the assistive technology

janina: The ability to have this in the API would give us the ability to send in in the direction it is needed

jasonjgw: Keep this discussion going in githup

<Joshue108> considerations relating to text size changes depending on the resolution being used by the presenter sharing their screen, ability to resize screen share #255

<Joshue108> https://github.com/w3c/apa/issues/255

scott_h: Issue around screen resolution

scott_h: When you switch between presenters with different resolutions

scott_h: Especially wen people are sharing their screen

scott_h: Good point; not sure if there is a way to standardize this

scott_h: May suggest that this is an issue that developers should work on

scott_h: Next issue, 253

<Joshue108> More detail on considerations of cognitive complexity as tools and larger platforms that integrate remote meetings are considered #253

<Joshue108> https://github.com/w3c/apa/issues/253

scott_h: toggle to get simplified view and then toggle back

janina: Yes; but who decides the parameters of the simplified version?

janina: If we can get configurable simplicity, that might be goog

Joshue108: Josh has labeled COGA issues for the NAUR

Joshue108: all the COGA issues on NAUR should be in GitHub now

<Joshue108> Scott has addedthe COGA issues for Remote Meetings stuff

Look at where SAUR is next week

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 185 (Thu Dec 2 18:51:55 2021 UTC).


Succeeded: s/Labeled COGA issues for the NAUR/Josh has labeled COGA issues for the NAUR

Succeeded: s/Jason has added /Scott has added

Maybe present: LW, Raja