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13:38:22 <trackbot> Meeting: Accessible Platform Architectures Working Group Teleconference
13:38:22 <trackbot> Date: 12 January 2022
13:39:34 <jasonjgw> agenda+ Inaccessibility of CAPTCHA.
13:39:35 <jasonjgw> agenda+ Accessibility of remote Meetings.
13:39:35 <jasonjgw> agenda+ Natural Language Interface Accessibility User Requirements.
13:39:35 <jasonjgw> agenda+ Miscellaneous topics.
13:39:43 <jasonjgw> zakim, clear agenda
13:39:43 <Zakim> agenda cleared
13:39:49 <jasonjgw> agenda+ Inaccessibility of CAPTCHA.
13:39:50 <jasonjgw> agenda+ Accessibility of remote Meetings.
13:39:50 <jasonjgw> agenda+ Natural Language Interface Accessibility User Requirements.
13:39:50 <jasonjgw> agenda+ Miscellaneous topics.
13:40:09 <jasonjgw> chair: jasonjgw
13:40:17 <jasonjgw> agenda+
13:50:45 <jasonjgw> present+
13:50:52 <jasonjgw> zakim, list agenda
13:50:52 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:
13:50:53 <Zakim> 1. Inaccessibility of CAPTCHA. [from jasonjgw]
13:50:53 <Zakim> 2. Accessibility of remote Meetings. [from jasonjgw]
13:50:53 <Zakim> 3. Natural Language Interface Accessibility User Requirements. [from jasonjgw]
13:50:53 <Zakim> 4. Miscellaneous topics. [from jasonjgw]
13:50:57 <scott_h> scott_h has joined #rqtf
13:53:25 <janina> janina has joined #rqtf
13:59:45 <SteveNoble> SteveNoble has joined #rqtf
13:59:57 <SteveNoble> present+
14:01:20 <scott_h> present+
14:01:39 <jasonjgw> zakim, next item
14:01:39 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Inaccessibility of CAPTCHA. -- taken up [from jasonjgw]
14:01:45 <janina> present+
14:02:20 <SteveNoble> scribe: SteveNoble
14:02:51 <SteveNoble> Introductions all around for Lionel Wolberger
14:04:11 <Joshue108> present+
14:08:55 <SteveNoble> LW: used to be active in verifiable identity work
14:09:43 <SteveNoble> LW: concerned about privacy issues in the online world
14:10:34 <SteveNoble> jasonjgw: Lionel's experience and background will be helpful for our CAPTCHA work
14:11:29 <SteveNoble> jasonjgw: A recent commentator suggested connecting to more recent CAPTCHA technologies
14:11:33 <janina> q+
14:12:27 <SteveNoble> jasonjgw: Was also an issue around the document structure; we may need to organize the document differently
14:12:43 <Joshue108> ack jan
14:12:47 <SteveNoble> janina: Proposing a major focus shift
14:13:21 <SteveNoble> janina: General APA discussion was positive
14:13:32 <Lionel_Wolberger> Lionel_Wolberger has joined #rqtf
14:13:35 <Lionel_Wolberger> present+
14:13:43 <Lionel_Wolberger> agenda?
14:14:24 <SteveNoble> janina: Suggest that we have enough technologies that can determine human authenticity
14:15:23 <SteveNoble> janina: Starting with reCAPTCHA 3 this is essentially fully automated
14:15:58 <scott_h> q+
14:17:41 <SteveNoble> janina: Should identify older technologies as legacy
14:18:50 <SteveNoble> janina: New technologies like Cloudfare can be promoted as newer less-burdensome authentication techniques
14:19:33 <SteveNoble> janina: Individual websites should not take this role but leave it to the user agent
14:20:26 <SteveNoble> janina: Rewrite the CAPTCHA document so that the burden in placed on the user agent
14:20:55 <Lionel_Wolberger> q?
14:21:01 <janina> q?
14:21:05 <Lionel_Wolberger> q+
14:21:13 <SteveNoble> janina: If we can shift the burden, this would help push the agenda to end CAPTCHA
14:21:22 <janina> ack sc
14:21:39 <SteveNoble> scott_h: Generally like this approach
14:22:09 <SteveNoble> scott_h: A practical method example would be useful
14:23:15 <SteveNoble> janina: I am now using the user agent approach, although I still come across websites with legacy technology
14:23:33 <SteveNoble> scott_h: Does the user have to install this?
14:24:24 <SteveNoble> janina: The idea is that this becomes seamless and the user agent typically takes care of this without further human intervention
14:24:57 <SteveNoble> scott_h: What about email and multi-factor authentications?
14:25:46 <SteveNoble> Raja: Question on biometrics validations; it becomes a barrier
14:26:37 <SteveNoble> janina: Yes...we need to add this. For example where a phone system relies on a human voice
14:27:03 <SteveNoble> janina: Different user options will be important
14:27:14 <janina> ack li
14:28:05 <SteveNoble> Lionel_Wolberger: We have the  industry on our side, because they want less hassle for the consumer; but they also don't want bots
14:28:38 <SteveNoble> Lionel_Wolberger: difference between verifying your identity and authenticating your humanity
14:29:21 <SteveNoble> Lionel_Wolberger: Pointing to new techniques is important
14:30:21 <SteveNoble> Lionel_Wolberger: The server sends a variety of handshakes, this has been done for years
14:31:12 <SteveNoble> Lionel_Wolberger: Not suggesting that we encourage thinngs that lower privacy, like location information
14:31:50 <SteveNoble> Lionel_Wolberger: Co-publishing will be a useful and important step
14:32:29 <SteveNoble> Lionel_Wolberger: Would like to have a trust-list protocol
14:33:18 <SteveNoble> Lionel_Wolberger: CAPTCHA doesn't really figure out if you are a human, but rather tries to determine that you are not a bot
14:34:08 <SteveNoble> jasonjgw: Importance of keeping personal information protected is what we want to stress
14:34:29 <Lionel_Wolberger> +1 to anonymous proofs of "i am not a bot"
14:34:38 <janina> q?
14:34:41 <SteveNoble> jasonjgw: New technologies like Cloudfare seem to make this possible
14:35:24 <Lionel_Wolberger> +1 to using other W3C technologies like Verifiable Credentials, Distributed Identifiers, Webauthn
14:36:04 <janina> q?
14:36:13 <SteveNoble> jasonjgw: May need to think about how making a number of various options both helps and complicates things
14:37:01 <SteveNoble> janina: Suggest that we think about this discussion before proceeding
14:37:26 <SteveNoble> Lionel_Wolberger: Plan to come next week; let's continue then
14:38:13 <SteveNoble> janina: Sounds like we have a good direction
14:38:42 <SteveNoble> jasonjgw: Will put this on the top of the agenda next time
14:38:52 <jasonjgw> zakim, next item
14:38:52 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Accessibility of remote Meetings. -- taken up [from jasonjgw]
14:40:00 <SteveNoble> scott_h: Gotten my head around GitHub and making progress
14:40:21 <SteveNoble> scott_h: Josh is helping me on getting up to speed
14:40:56 <SteveNoble> scott_h: Took all the COGA comments and separated into individual issues on GitHub
14:41:24 <SteveNoble> scott_h: The suggested edits seem reasonable
14:42:01 <SteveNoble> scott_h: Not sure if we need specific COGA section in the document
14:42:29 <SteveNoble> scott_h: Comes to about 10 issues in GistHub so far
14:43:07 <SteveNoble> scott_h: Look at a few now if we can
14:43:52 <janina> q+
14:44:20 <Joshue108> guidance recommended for Braille support in remote meeting software.
14:44:20 <Joshue108> #257 https://github.com/w3c/apa/issues/257
14:44:32 <SteveNoble> scott_h: Issue around braille display inclusion
14:44:45 <Joshue108> ack jan
14:45:01 <Joshue108> q+
14:45:21 <SteveNoble> janina: Many times the industry lumps together speech and braille output
14:46:12 <SteveNoble> janina: But you might want the braille display to show who is speaking while the attendee is listening to the person's voice on the meeting
14:46:52 <Joshue108> ack me
14:46:55 <SteveNoble> janina: Also for deaf users using a braille display
14:47:30 <SteveNoble> Joshue108: Would like to spell out this sort of use case in our document
14:47:49 <janina> q?
14:48:45 <janina> q?
14:48:48 <janina> q+
14:49:37 <SteveNoble> jasonjgw: This type of use case may be supported currently for if users can focus on the correct element
14:50:28 <SteveNoble> jasonjgw: Not suggesting that we pinpoint where the support needs to come from
14:51:08 <SteveNoble> janina: Not sure if I agree; don't want to throw this only on the assistive technology
14:51:47 <SteveNoble> janina: The ability to have this in the API would give us the ability to send in in the direction it is needed
14:52:14 <janina> ack ja
14:52:46 <SteveNoble> jasonjgw: Keep this discussion going in githup
14:53:02 <Joshue108> considerations relating to text size changes depending on the resolution being used by the presenter sharing their screen, ability to resize screen share #255
14:53:06 <Joshue108> https://github.com/w3c/apa/issues/255
14:53:08 <SteveNoble> scott_h: Issue around screen resolution
14:54:04 <SteveNoble> scott_h: When you switch between presenters with different resolutions
14:54:28 <janina> q?
14:54:33 <SteveNoble> scott_h: Especially wen people are sharing their screen
14:55:09 <SteveNoble> scott_h: Good point; not sure if there is a way to standardize this
14:55:42 <SteveNoble> scott_h: May suggest that this is an issue that developers should work on
14:56:50 <SteveNoble> scott_h: Next issue, 253
14:57:02 <Joshue108> More detail on considerations of cognitive complexity as tools and larger platforms that integrate remote meetings are considered #253
14:57:07 <Joshue108> https://github.com/w3c/apa/issues/253
14:57:18 <janina> q+
14:57:32 <SteveNoble> scott_h: toggle to get simplified view and then toggle back
14:57:39 <janina> ack ja
14:57:59 <SteveNoble> janina: Yes; but who decides the parameters of the simplified version?
14:58:37 <SteveNoble> janina: If we can get configurable simplicity, that might be goog
14:58:59 <SteveNoble> Joshue108: Labeled COGA issues for the NAUR
14:59:35 <SteveNoble> Joshue108: all the COGA issues on NAUR should be in GitHub now
14:59:42 <Joshue108> s/Labeled COGA issues for the NAUR/Josh has labeled COGA issues for the NAUR
14:59:55 <Joshue108> Jason has added the COGA issues for Remote Meetings stuff
15:00:28 <Joshue108> s/Jason has added /Scott has added
15:00:36 <SteveNoble> Look at where SAUR is next week
15:01:05 <jasonjgw> zakim, bye
15:01:05 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been jasonjgw, SteveNoble, janina, scott_h, Joshue, Lionel_Wolberger
15:01:05 <Zakim> Zakim has left #rqtf
15:01:18 <jasonjgw> rrsagent, make minutes
15:01:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/01/12-rqtf-minutes.html jasonjgw
15:03:34 <janina> janina has left #rqtf