IRC log of rqtf on 2022-01-12

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13:38:22 [trackbot]

Meeting: Accessible Platform Architectures Working Group Teleconference

13:38:22 [trackbot]

Date: 12 January 2022

13:39:34 [jasonjgw]

agenda+ Inaccessibility of CAPTCHA.

13:39:35 [jasonjgw]

agenda+ Accessibility of remote Meetings.

13:39:35 [jasonjgw]

agenda+ Natural Language Interface Accessibility User Requirements.

13:39:35 [jasonjgw]

agenda+ Miscellaneous topics.

13:39:43 [jasonjgw]

zakim, clear agenda

13:39:43 [Zakim]

agenda cleared

13:39:49 [jasonjgw]

agenda+ Inaccessibility of CAPTCHA.

13:39:50 [jasonjgw]

agenda+ Accessibility of remote Meetings.

13:39:50 [jasonjgw]

agenda+ Natural Language Interface Accessibility User Requirements.

13:39:50 [jasonjgw]

agenda+ Miscellaneous topics.

13:40:09 [jasonjgw]

chair: jasonjgw

13:40:17 [jasonjgw]

agenda+

13:50:45 [jasonjgw]

present+

13:50:52 [jasonjgw]

zakim, list agenda

13:50:52 [Zakim]

I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:

13:50:53 [Zakim]

1. Inaccessibility of CAPTCHA. [from jasonjgw]

13:50:53 [Zakim]

2. Accessibility of remote Meetings. [from jasonjgw]

13:50:53 [Zakim]

3. Natural Language Interface Accessibility User Requirements. [from jasonjgw]

13:50:53 [Zakim]

4. Miscellaneous topics. [from jasonjgw]

13:50:57 [scott_h]

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13:53:25 [janina]

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13:59:45 [SteveNoble]

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13:59:57 [SteveNoble]

present+

14:01:20 [scott_h]

present+

14:01:39 [jasonjgw]

zakim, next item

14:01:39 [Zakim]

agendum 1 -- Inaccessibility of CAPTCHA. -- taken up [from jasonjgw]

14:01:45 [janina]

present+

14:02:20 [SteveNoble]

scribe: SteveNoble

14:02:51 [SteveNoble]

Introductions all around for Lionel Wolberger

14:04:11 [Joshue108]

present+

14:08:55 [SteveNoble]

LW: used to be active in verifiable identity work

14:09:43 [SteveNoble]

LW: concerned about privacy issues in the online world

14:10:34 [SteveNoble]

jasonjgw: Lionel's experience and background will be helpful for our CAPTCHA work

14:11:29 [SteveNoble]

jasonjgw: A recent commentator suggested connecting to more recent CAPTCHA technologies

14:11:33 [janina]

q+

14:12:27 [SteveNoble]

jasonjgw: Was also an issue around the document structure; we may need to organize the document differently

14:12:43 [Joshue108]

ack jan

14:12:47 [SteveNoble]

janina: Proposing a major focus shift

14:13:21 [SteveNoble]

janina: General APA discussion was positive

14:13:32 [Lionel_Wolberger]

Lionel_Wolberger has joined #rqtf

14:13:35 [Lionel_Wolberger]

present+

14:13:43 [Lionel_Wolberger]

agenda?

14:14:24 [SteveNoble]

janina: Suggest that we have enough technologies that can determine human authenticity

14:15:23 [SteveNoble]

janina: Starting with reCAPTCHA 3 this is essentially fully automated

14:15:58 [scott_h]

q+

14:17:41 [SteveNoble]

janina: Should identify older technologies as legacy

14:18:50 [SteveNoble]

janina: New technologies like Cloudfare can be promoted as newer less-burdensome authentication techniques

14:19:33 [SteveNoble]

janina: Individual websites should not take this role but leave it to the user agent

14:20:26 [SteveNoble]

janina: Rewrite the CAPTCHA document so that the burden in placed on the user agent

14:20:55 [Lionel_Wolberger]

q?

14:21:01 [janina]

q?

14:21:05 [Lionel_Wolberger]

q+

14:21:13 [SteveNoble]

janina: If we can shift the burden, this would help push the agenda to end CAPTCHA

14:21:22 [janina]

ack sc

14:21:39 [SteveNoble]

scott_h: Generally like this approach

14:22:09 [SteveNoble]

scott_h: A practical method example would be useful

14:23:15 [SteveNoble]

janina: I am now using the user agent approach, although I still come across websites with legacy technology

14:23:33 [SteveNoble]

scott_h: Does the user have to install this?

14:24:24 [SteveNoble]

janina: The idea is that this becomes seamless and the user agent typically takes care of this without further human intervention

14:24:57 [SteveNoble]

scott_h: What about email and multi-factor authentications?

14:25:46 [SteveNoble]

Raja: Question on biometrics validations; it becomes a barrier

14:26:37 [SteveNoble]

janina: Yes...we need to add this. For example where a phone system relies on a human voice

14:27:03 [SteveNoble]

janina: Different user options will be important

14:27:14 [janina]

ack li

14:28:05 [SteveNoble]

Lionel_Wolberger: We have the industry on our side, because they want less hassle for the consumer; but they also don't want bots

14:28:38 [SteveNoble]

Lionel_Wolberger: difference between verifying your identity and authenticating your humanity

14:29:21 [SteveNoble]

Lionel_Wolberger: Pointing to new techniques is important

14:30:21 [SteveNoble]

Lionel_Wolberger: The server sends a variety of handshakes, this has been done for years

14:31:12 [SteveNoble]

Lionel_Wolberger: Not suggesting that we encourage thinngs that lower privacy, like location information

14:31:50 [SteveNoble]

Lionel_Wolberger: Co-publishing will be a useful and important step

14:32:29 [SteveNoble]

Lionel_Wolberger: Would like to have a trust-list protocol

14:33:18 [SteveNoble]

Lionel_Wolberger: CAPTCHA doesn't really figure out if you are a human, but rather tries to determine that you are not a bot

14:34:08 [SteveNoble]

jasonjgw: Importance of keeping personal information protected is what we want to stress

14:34:29 [Lionel_Wolberger]

+1 to anonymous proofs of "i am not a bot"

14:34:38 [janina]

q?

14:34:41 [SteveNoble]

jasonjgw: New technologies like Cloudfare seem to make this possible

14:35:24 [Lionel_Wolberger]

+1 to using other W3C technologies like Verifiable Credentials, Distributed Identifiers, Webauthn

14:36:04 [janina]

q?

14:36:13 [SteveNoble]

jasonjgw: May need to think about how making a number of various options both helps and complicates things

14:37:01 [SteveNoble]

janina: Suggest that we think about this discussion before proceeding

14:37:26 [SteveNoble]

Lionel_Wolberger: Plan to come next week; let's continue then

14:38:13 [SteveNoble]

janina: Sounds like we have a good direction

14:38:42 [SteveNoble]

jasonjgw: Will put this on the top of the agenda next time

14:38:52 [jasonjgw]

zakim, next item

14:38:52 [Zakim]

agendum 2 -- Accessibility of remote Meetings. -- taken up [from jasonjgw]

14:40:00 [SteveNoble]

scott_h: Gotten my head around GitHub and making progress

14:40:21 [SteveNoble]

scott_h: Josh is helping me on getting up to speed

14:40:56 [SteveNoble]

scott_h: Took all the COGA comments and separated into individual issues on GitHub

14:41:24 [SteveNoble]

scott_h: The suggested edits seem reasonable

14:42:01 [SteveNoble]

scott_h: Not sure if we need specific COGA section in the document

14:42:29 [SteveNoble]

scott_h: Comes to about 10 issues in GistHub so far

14:43:07 [SteveNoble]

scott_h: Look at a few now if we can

14:43:52 [janina]

q+

14:44:20 [Joshue108]

guidance recommended for Braille support in remote meeting software.

14:44:20 [Joshue108]

#257 https://github.com/w3c/apa/issues/257

14:44:32 [SteveNoble]

scott_h: Issue around braille display inclusion

14:44:45 [Joshue108]

ack jan

14:45:01 [Joshue108]

q+

14:45:21 [SteveNoble]

janina: Many times the industry lumps together speech and braille output

14:46:12 [SteveNoble]

janina: But you might want the braille display to show who is speaking while the attendee is listening to the person's voice on the meeting

14:46:52 [Joshue108]

ack me

14:46:55 [SteveNoble]

janina: Also for deaf users using a braille display

14:47:30 [SteveNoble]

Joshue108: Would like to spell out this sort of use case in our document

14:47:49 [janina]

q?

14:48:45 [janina]

q?

14:48:48 [janina]

q+

14:49:37 [SteveNoble]

jasonjgw: This type of use case may be supported currently for if users can focus on the correct element

14:50:28 [SteveNoble]

jasonjgw: Not suggesting that we pinpoint where the support needs to come from

14:51:08 [SteveNoble]

janina: Not sure if I agree; don't want to throw this only on the assistive technology

14:51:47 [SteveNoble]

janina: The ability to have this in the API would give us the ability to send in in the direction it is needed

14:52:14 [janina]

ack ja

14:52:46 [SteveNoble]

jasonjgw: Keep this discussion going in githup

14:53:02 [Joshue108]

considerations relating to text size changes depending on the resolution being used by the presenter sharing their screen, ability to resize screen share #255

14:53:06 [Joshue108]

https://github.com/w3c/apa/issues/255

14:53:08 [SteveNoble]

scott_h: Issue around screen resolution

14:54:04 [SteveNoble]

scott_h: When you switch between presenters with different resolutions

14:54:28 [janina]

q?

14:54:33 [SteveNoble]

scott_h: Especially wen people are sharing their screen

14:55:09 [SteveNoble]

scott_h: Good point; not sure if there is a way to standardize this

14:55:42 [SteveNoble]

scott_h: May suggest that this is an issue that developers should work on

14:56:50 [SteveNoble]

scott_h: Next issue, 253

14:57:02 [Joshue108]

More detail on considerations of cognitive complexity as tools and larger platforms that integrate remote meetings are considered #253

14:57:07 [Joshue108]

https://github.com/w3c/apa/issues/253

14:57:18 [janina]

q+

14:57:32 [SteveNoble]

scott_h: toggle to get simplified view and then toggle back

14:57:39 [janina]

ack ja

14:57:59 [SteveNoble]

janina: Yes; but who decides the parameters of the simplified version?

14:58:37 [SteveNoble]

janina: If we can get configurable simplicity, that might be goog

14:58:59 [SteveNoble]

Joshue108: Labeled COGA issues for the NAUR

14:59:35 [SteveNoble]

Joshue108: all the COGA issues on NAUR should be in GitHub now

14:59:42 [Joshue108]

s/Labeled COGA issues for the NAUR/Josh has labeled COGA issues for the NAUR

14:59:55 [Joshue108]

Jason has added the COGA issues for Remote Meetings stuff

15:00:28 [Joshue108]

s/Jason has added /Scott has added

15:00:36 [SteveNoble]

Look at where SAUR is next week

15:01:05 [jasonjgw]

zakim, bye

15:01:05 [Zakim]

leaving. As of this point the attendees have been jasonjgw, SteveNoble, janina, scott_h, Joshue, Lionel_Wolberger

15:01:05 [Zakim]

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15:01:18 [jasonjgw]

rrsagent, make minutes

15:01:18 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/01/12-rqtf-minutes.html jasonjgw

15:03:34 [janina]

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