13 December 2021


bgibson, CharlesL, janina_, JF, Lionel_Wolberger, Matthew_Atkinson, Roy

Meeting minutes

Follow-up on i18n issue #144

<Lionel_Wolberger> https://github.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/issues/144

<bgibson> Lionel_Wolberger: follow up on issue #144 - no answer from i18n group, yet. Can we ping someone?

<bgibson> janina: volunteers to ping i18n to request not block our passage to CR. Once we are in CR we can get the implementation that they are requesting

<bgibson> Lionel: the response was rewritten from our disussion last week. I lost the one we drafted together and had to redraft

<bgibson> Matthew_Atkinson: Just noticed that no syntax highlighting in the issue response, I will volunteer to add that

<bgibson> Lionel_Wolberger: was unaware of that feature, would be good to add

<bgibson> Matthew_Atkinson: use three back ticks to get HTML formatting, missing closure in one of the examples, I'll fix. will ping with the URL once edited

<bgibson> CharlesL: has anyone verified that they can't get the plugin to work? Has anyone tried?

<bgibson> CharlesL: I tried and failed but wondering if anyone else has tried?

<bgibson> Matthew_Atkinson: Yes, I tried but it didn't render the symbols

<bgibson> Matthew_Atkinson: think I was using the extension from Lisa's web page, got the correct JSON from Lisa but couldn't get it fully set up

<bgibson> CharlesL: There was an extension from Firefox, but that is old. Have gotten no response from the original author

<bgibson> Lionel_Wolberger: Can we get the urls into the minutes?

<CharlesL> https://mycult-5c18a.firebaseapp.com/

<CharlesL> https://personalization-f08cf.firebaseapp.com/SiteDescription

<Matthew_Atkinson> URL for syntactically-tweaked #144 comment (I re-indented the first example; added an ellipsis, and activated syntax highlighting on all of the examples): https://github.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/issues/144#issuecomment-989208554

<bgibson> Lionel_Wolberger: I got a valid JSON file but couldn't get it to work. It seems several people have tried

<bgibson> Janina: hard to know the quality of the code and whether is worth tweaking or starting over?

<bgibson> Lionel_Wolberger: would be great to share the required, valid JSON. I will send that to the list

<bgibson> janina: mailing archives don't accept attachements, might need to use w3c archives; careful putting it in the body because linebreaks can mess things up

<bgibson> Lionel_Wolberger: sent to list in the body

<bgibson> Matthew_Atkinson: made the edits to the issue, see url above

CR draft Status (if #144 is clear)

<bgibson> Lionel_Wolberger: still not clear on #144, anything else to discuss?

<bgibson> Janina: I will take up issues #144 with i18n

<bgibson> Janina: won't be able to go to CR until January

Content Module Implementations check-in

<bgibson> Lionel_Wolberger: spoke to a potential provider today but not confident they will step up; Have talked to a few banks but not confident; US AccessBoard is ready to go ahead

<bgibson> Lionel_Wolberger: UserWay will work on the US AccessBoard page from github

<bgibson> Lionel_Wolberger: We need to find more implementors. Any progress from others on this front?

<bgibson> Janina: have contact for authoring side, still need renderings

<bgibson> CharlesL: Thorium epub reader comes to mind but one of the main people on project is retiring. Thorium is open source so others can contribute. There is info about personalization in Bookshare planning - not sure how far that will go

<bgibson> Janina: what about text help? Would their audience be interested in symbols?

<bgibson> CharlesL: ETS might be an organization to approach?

<bgibson> Janina: I will talk to Markku

<bgibson> Lionel_Wolberger: both rendering and markup implementors has been challenging. Would love a large brand to get more recognition

<bgibson> janina_: What about w3.org ;-)

<bgibson> Janina: I will bring it up on the WAI coordination call

<bgibson> Janina: AccessBoard has pointed out that personalization is helpful on forms; WAI doesn't have that many forms

<bgibson> Roy: perhaps talk to Education and Outreach working group

<Matthew_Atkinson> +1 to janina_'s suggestion of w3.org, and to Roy's suggestion of the EO group.

<bgibson> Roy: I can try to find a company in China

<bgibson> Lionel_Wolberger: should be easy to mark up a page, browsers will ignore attributes they don't understand

<bgibson> Lionel_Wolberger: perhaps can use the new China directive to engage older citizens; some of our attributes are certainly helpful for that group

<bgibson> Janina: we have some people in Japan we can contact, Makoto at Info Axia

<bgibson> jf: I can reach out to Makoto

<bgibson> Janina: if we have to combine with Ruby we need to allow for more needed space

<bgibson> JF: how this is handled will be part of the tool, may have to rely on CSS to create the needed whitespace;

ACTION: JF to chat with Makoto about examples (Symbols with Japanese text)

<trackbot> Created ACTION-93 - Chat with makoto about examples (symbols with japanese text) [on John Foliot - due 2021-12-20].

<bgibson> JF: may need to use Data URI's rather than loading symbols into the actual page; have tried with with images; get text representation of image/symbol that is rendered into CSS box model

<bgibson> Lionel_Wolberger: discussion of ruby...

<Lionel_Wolberger> これは<ruby><rb>日</rb><rt>に</rt> <rb>本</rb><rt>ほん</rt> <rb>語</rb><rt>ご</rt></ruby>です。

<Lionel_Wolberger> <span data-symbol="99999">word</span>

<JF> Data URIs explainer: https://goetter.fr/lab/divers/data-uri/

<bgibson> Janina: it would be very good to have non-English implementations

<bgibson> JF: one of my clients is working in the EPUB space, working on building out EPUB tools; currently geared toward K-12; on roadmap is building an accessibile EPUB reader but believe it is too far out for personalization context

<bgibson> Janina: we don't need finesse, we need to prove "implementability"

<bgibson> JF: dealing with chicken and egg situation: need implementations to get tools, need tools to motivate implementations

<bgibson> becky: see the biggest need for epub is generation for the average person (vs a corporation). Currently few options with limited complexity

<Matthew_Atkinson> +1 to JF's idea of getting this into authoring tools; it would be huge. I haven't been able to look into it in detail yet but plan to over the holidays!

<bgibson> JF: still think extensions to TinyMCE WYSIWYG tool is still a good option; see that as an early goal

<bgibson> JF: tool is closed but encourage for open source extensions

<bgibson> Lionel_Wolberger: Why do epubs always come up?

<bgibson> JF: CharlesL and I are biased because we work in that space

<bgibson> JF: but if we can target an editor tool we can potentially get this into Wordpress and thus wider usage

<bgibson> JF: or into other CMS tools that use WYSIWYG editors

<bgibson> Lionel_Wolberger: We don't talk about PDF but do talk about EPUBs, so EPUBS are just another web rendering?

<bgibson> Janina: epub is the basis for k-12 in the US

<bgibson> JF: All book publishers are looking towards EPUB

<bgibson> Lionel_Wolberger: Just to clarify, EPUB comes up because it is a type of HTML rendering

<bgibson> Janina: it also pulls in additional requirements such as math, chemistry, etc. other specializations

<bgibson> JF: expectation is that educational documents created using our specification would be supported by assistive technologies

<bgibson> JF: learning is more focused on task completion rather than "info-tainment"

<bgibson> Lionel_Wolberger: do we know anyone working in the learning and ADHD space that would benefit. I can see simplification being a great example

<bgibson> CharlesL: yes, that is included in bookshare's focus; Need to understand more details and what publishers to approach; need to understand the need of various learning, cognitive disabilities

<bgibson> Lionel_Wolberger: how are epubs consumed in educational space?

<bgibson> CharlesL: usually chromebooks or student's own AT; students will use reader they are most comfortable with; some are integrated into the LMS

<bgibson> CharlesL: some have different options for customizing (text size, space, etc) and also support read aloud

<bgibson> Janina: asides are a good candidate so you can hide them when reading but go back to them later

Summary of action items

  1. JF to chat with Makoto about examples (Symbols with Japanese text)
Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 185 (Thu Dec 2 18:51:55 2021 UTC).


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