IRC log of personalization on 2021-12-13

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:56:45 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #personalization
14:56:45 [RRSAgent]: logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/12/13-personalization-irc
14:56:47 [Zakim]: RRSAgent, make logs Public
14:56:48 [Zakim]: please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), Lionel_Wolberger
15:00:42 [JF]: JF has joined #personalization
15:00:49 [JF]: agenda?
15:00:54 [JF]: Present+
15:01:16 [CharlesL]: CharlesL has joined #personalization
15:01:27 [CharlesL]: present+
15:03:46 [janina_]: janina_ has joined #personalization
15:04:23 [bgibson]: bgibson has joined #personalization
15:04:28 [Matthew_Atkinson]: Matthew_Atkinson has joined #personalization
15:04:31 [bgibson]: present+
15:05:53 [Roy]: present+
15:06:00 [janina_]: present+
15:06:09 [Lionel_Wolberger]: present+
15:06:26 [Matthew_Atkinson]: present+
15:07:07 [bgibson]: scribe: becky
15:07:47 [bgibson]: zakim, next item
15:07:47 [Zakim]: agendum 1 -- Follow-up on i18n issue #144 -- taken up [from Lionel_Wolberger]
15:07:54 [bgibson]: rrsagent, make minutes
15:07:54 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/12/13-personalization-minutes.html bgibson
15:08:11 [Lionel_Wolberger]: https://github.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/issues/144
15:08:26 [bgibson]: Lionel_Wolberger: follow up on issue #144 - no answer from i18n group, yet. Can we ping someone?
15:09:25 [CharlesL]: q+
15:09:29 [bgibson]: janina: volunteers to ping i18n to request not block our passage to CR. Once we are in CR we can get the implementation that they are requesting
15:10:07 [Matthew_Atkinson]: q+
15:10:13 [bgibson]: Lionel: the response was rewritten from our disussion last week. I lost the one we drafted together and had to redraft
15:10:43 [CharlesL]: ack Matthew_Atkinson
15:10:48 [bgibson]: Matthew_Atkinson: Just noticed that no syntax highlighting in the issue response, I will volunteer to add that
15:11:14 [bgibson]: Lionel_Wolberger: was unaware of that feature, would be good to add
15:11:52 [bgibson]: Matthew_Atkinson: use three back ticks to get HTML formatting, missing closure in one of the examples, I'll fix. will ping with the URL once edited
15:12:01 [Matthew_Atkinson]: ack Matthew_Atkinson
15:12:37 [bgibson]: CharlesL: has anyone verified that they can't get the plugin to work? Has anyone tried?
15:12:59 [bgibson]: CharlesL: I tried and failed but wondering if anyone else has tried?
15:13:10 [bgibson]: Matthew_Atkinson: Yes, I tried but it didn't render the symbols
15:14:06 [bgibson]: Matthew_Atkinson: think I was using the extension from Lisa's web page, got the correct JSON from Lisa but couldn't get it fully set up
15:14:53 [bgibson]: CharlesL: There was an extension from Firefox, but that is old. Have gotten no response from the original author
15:15:11 [bgibson]: Lionel_Wolberger: Can we get the urls into the minutes?
15:15:15 [CharlesL]: https://mycult-5c18a.firebaseapp.com/
15:15:26 [CharlesL]: https://personalization-f08cf.firebaseapp.com/SiteDescription
15:15:40 [Matthew_Atkinson]: URL to syntactically-tweaked #144 comment (I re-indented the first example; added an ellipsis, and activated syntax highlighting on all of the examples): https://github.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/issues/144#issuecomment-989208554
15:15:56 [Matthew_Atkinson]: s/URL to syn/URL for syn/
15:16:08 [bgibson]: Lionel_Wolberger: I got a valid JSON file but couldn't get it to work. It seems several people have tried
15:16:50 [bgibson]: Janina: hard to know the quality of the code and whether is worth tweaking or starting over?
15:17:24 [bgibson]: Lionel_Wolberger: would be great to share the required, valid JSON. I will send that to the list
15:18:14 [bgibson]: janina: mailing archives don't accept attachements, might need to use w3c archives; careful putting it in the body because linebreaks can mess things up
15:18:41 [Lionel_Wolberger]: q?
15:18:47 [bgibson]: Lionel_Wolberger: sent to list in the body
15:18:50 [Lionel_Wolberger]: ack CharlesL
15:18:59 [bgibson]: Matthew_Atkinson: made the edits to the issue, see url above
15:19:22 [Lionel_Wolberger]: agenda?
15:19:25 [bgibson]: zakim, next item
15:19:26 [Zakim]: agendum 2 -- CR draft Status (if #144 is clear) -- taken up [from Lionel_Wolberger]
15:19:57 [bgibson]: Lionel_Wolberger: still not clear on #144, anything else to discuss?
15:20:12 [bgibson]: Janina: I will take up issues #144 with i18n
15:20:37 [bgibson]: Janina: won't be able to go to CR until January
15:20:42 [bgibson]: zakim, close this item
15:20:42 [Zakim]: agendum 2 closed
15:20:43 [Zakim]: I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:20:43 [Zakim]: 3. Content Module Implementations check-in [from Lionel_Wolberger]
15:20:46 [bgibson]: zakim, next item
15:20:46 [Zakim]: agendum 3 -- Content Module Implementations check-in -- taken up [from Lionel_Wolberger]
15:21:42 [bgibson]: Lionel_Wolberger: spoke to a potential provider today but not confident they will step up; Have talked to a few banks but not confident; US AccessBoard is ready to go ahead
15:22:15 [bgibson]: Lionel_Wolberger: UserWay will work on the US AccessBoard page from github
15:22:44 [bgibson]: Lionel_Wolberger: We need to find more implementors. Any progress from others on this front?
15:23:00 [bgibson]: Janina: have contact for authoring side, still need renderings
15:24:34 [bgibson]: CharlesL: Thorium epub reader comes to mind but one of the main people on project is retiring. Thorium is open source so others can contribute. There is info about personalization in Bookshare planning - not sure how far that will go
15:24:54 [bgibson]: Janina: what about text help? Would their audience be interested in symbols?
15:25:16 [bgibson]: CharlesL: ETS might be an organization to approach?
15:25:47 [bgibson]: Janina: I will talk to Markku
15:27:52 [bgibson]: Lionel_Wolberger: both rendering and markup implementors has been challenging. Would love a large brand to get more recognition
15:28:04 [bgibson]: janina_: What about w3.org ;-)
15:28:34 [bgibson]: Janina: I will bring it up on the WAI coordination call
15:29:16 [bgibson]: Janina: AccessBoard has pointed out that personalization is helpful on forms; WAI doesn't have that many forms
15:29:57 [bgibson]: Roy: perhaps talk to Engineering and Outreach working group
15:30:20 [Matthew_Atkinson]: +1 to janina_'s suggestion of w3.org, and to Roy's suggestion of the EO group.
15:30:49 [Matthew_Atkinson]: s/Engineering and Outreach/Education and Outreach/
15:31:38 [bgibson]: Roy: I can try to find a company in China
15:32:15 [bgibson]: Lionel_Wolberger: should be easy to mark up a page, browsers will ignore attributes they don't understand
15:32:26 [bgibson]: rrsagent, make minutes
15:32:26 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/12/13-personalization-minutes.html bgibson
15:33:25 [bgibson]: Lionel_Wolberger: perhaps can use the new China directive to engage older citizens; some of our attributes are certainly helpful for that group
15:34:32 [bgibson]: Janina: we have some people in Japan we can contact, Makoto at Info Axia
15:34:58 [bgibson]: jf: I can reach out to Makoto
15:35:43 [bgibson]: Janina: if we have to combine with Ruby we need to allow for more needed space
15:36:41 [bgibson]: JF: how this is handled will be part of the tool, may have to rely on CSS to create the needed whitespace;
15:37:37 [JF]: ACTION: JF to chat with Makoto about examples (Symbols with Japanese text)
15:37:38 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-93 - Chat with makoto about examples (symbols with japanese text) [on John Foliot - due 2021-12-20].
15:38:51 [bgibson]: JF: may need to use datauri's rather than loading symbols into the actual page; have tried with with images; get text representation of image/symbol that is rendered into CSS box model
15:39:28 [bgibson]: Lionel_Wolberger: discussion of ruby...
15:39:32 [Lionel_Wolberger]: これは<ruby><rb>日</rb><rt>に</rt> <rb>本</rb><rt>ほん</rt> <rb>語</rb><rt>ご</rt></ruby>です。
15:40:07 [Lionel_Wolberger]: <span data-symbol="99999">word</span>
15:40:30 [JF]: Data URIs explainer: https://goetter.fr/lab/divers/data-uri/
15:40:59 [bgibson]: Janina: it would be very good to have non-English implementations
15:41:03 [JF]: s/datauri's/Data URI's
15:42:43 [bgibson]: JF: one of my clients is working in the EPUB space, working on building out EPUB tools; currently geared toward K-12; on roadmap is building an accessibile EPUB reader but believe it is too far out for personalization context
15:43:05 [bgibson]: Janina: we don't need finesse, we need to prove "implementability"
15:43:53 [bgibson]: JF: dealing with chicken and egg situation: need implementations to get tools, need tools to motivate implementations
15:45:37 [bgibson]: becky: see the biggest need for epub is generation for the average person (vs a corporation). Currently few options with limited complexity
15:46:52 [Matthew_Atkinson]: +1 to JF's idea of getting this into authoring tools; it would be huge. I haven't been able to look into it in detail yet but plan to over the holidays!
15:46:58 [bgibson]: JF: still think extensions to TinyMCE WYSIWYG tool is still a good option; see that as an early goal
15:47:41 [bgibson]: JF: tool is closed but encourage for open source extensions
15:47:59 [bgibson]: Lionel_Wolberger: Why do epubs always come up?
15:48:16 [bgibson]: JF: CharlesL and I are biased because we work in that space
15:48:57 [bgibson]: JF: but if we can target an editor tool we can potentially get this into Wordpress and thus wider usage
15:49:32 [bgibson]: JF: or into other CMS tools that use WYSIWYG editors
15:50:32 [bgibson]: Lionel_Wolberger: We don't talk about PDF but do talk about EPUBs, so EPUBS are just another web rendering?
15:51:13 [bgibson]: Janina: epub is the basis for k-12 in the US
15:51:30 [bgibson]: JF: All book publishers are looking towards EPUB
15:51:57 [bgibson]: Lionel_Wolberger: Just to clarify, EPUB comes up because it is a type of HTML rendering
15:52:35 [bgibson]: Janina: it also pulls in additional requirements such as math, chemistry, etc. other specializations
15:53:20 [bgibson]: JF: expectation is that educational documents created using our specification would be supported by assistive technologies
15:54:14 [bgibson]: JF: learning is more focused on task completion rather than "info-tainment"
15:55:45 [bgibson]: Lionel_Wolberger: do we know anyone working in the learning and ADHD space that would benefit. I can see simplification being a great example
15:57:21 [bgibson]: CharlesL: yes, that is included in bookshare's focus; Need to understand more details and what publishers to approach; need to understand the need of various learning, cognitive disabilities
15:57:39 [bgibson]: rrsagent, make minutes
15:57:39 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/12/13-personalization-minutes.html bgibson
15:58:12 [bgibson]: Lionel_Wolberger: how are epubs consumed in educational space?
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15:58:58 [bgibson]: CharlesL: usually chromebooks or student's own AT; students will use reader they are most comfortable with; some are integrated into the LMS
15:59:40 [bgibson]: CharlesL: some have different options for customizing (text size, space, etc) and also support read aloud
16:00:15 [bgibson]: Janina: asides are a good candidate so you can hide them when reading but go back to them later
16:00:39 [bgibson]: rrsagent, make minutes
16:00:39 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/12/13-personalization-minutes.html bgibson
16:06:29 [bgibson]: can you ping me the plan uri? I am in the meeting alone again
16:12:20 [Lionel_Wolberger]: Sorry missed this, Becky.
16:12:39 [Lionel_Wolberger]: We wrapped up, all good -- sent you the Zoom for next time.
16:12:47 [Lionel_Wolberger]: And minutes are generated, so we can close up here.
16:59:23 [CharlesL]: CharlesL has left #personalization