W3C

– DRAFT –
Smart Cities Breakout - Day 2

21 October 2021

Attendees

Present
Kaz_Ashimura__W3C, Claus_Popp_Larsen__RISE, Danie_Dersen_W3C_Nordic_Chapter, Eric_Siow__Intel, John_Kirkwood, Michael_McCool__Intel, Dirk_Schnelle_Walka, Hiroshi_Ota__Yahoo_Japan, Kunihiko_Toumura__Hitachi, Mohammad_AlMousawi, Rob_Smith, Ryuichi_Matsukura__Fujitsu, Takashi_Minamii__JCB, Tetsuhiko_Hirata__Hitachi, Tomoaki_Mizushima__IRI
Regrets
-
Chair
Kaz
Scribe
McCool

Meeting minutes

Discussion

<kaz> workshop page

<kaz> workshop report

<kaz> proposed IG Charter

kaz: introduces charter and workshop
… charter has been updated to reflect discussion during workshop
… updated use cases and scope

<kaz> Survey on the existing technologies and standards for Smart Cities (Technology Landscape)

<kaz> Best Practices on what technologies, e.g., WoT, Automotive, Geospatial, VR/AR, Speech and Semantic Web, to be applied for what kind of Smart Cities applications, e.g., improved accessibility, visitor guidance and energy management.

<kaz> Use cases and requirements for Smart Cities

kaz: proposed main purpose is survey of existing technologies and standards

eric: reviewed this draft, was thinking scope should include "identification of stakeholders"

kaz: would like to give background, then summarize first session, then we can discuss improvements

kaz: (reviews first session minutes)

kaz: eric already mentioned outreach

mccool: another point that showed up in the last session was making sure services were accessible, i.e. to people without computers

kaz: based on discussion in first session we are also looking at updating the charter e.g. to list stakeholder

mccool: I believe I also mentioned coordination with smart building WGs and SDOs

kaz: (reviews existing list of SDOs and groups in charter)

eric: looking at the country list?

kaz: not actually a list of countries, but orgs; ASEAN, etc.

eric: ASEAN is southeast asia; do want to communicate importance of Japan, Taiwan, etc.
… proposing that that area is where we should initially focus, as they are most open to coordinated effort

mccool: also noticed the "Smart Cities Council" is not there; but agree that asian cities are a good starting point

kaz: right; but to be clear, I just wanted to review the last session and the current status

kaz: although regarding asian cities, I live in Japan and can work with the Japanese government
… and we already have relationship with Singapore

kaz: would also like to point out discussion of accessibility issues
… including cognitive issues

kaz: would like to ask participants here for further comments

dersen: nordic chapter, sweden
… involved in a test for climate neutral smart city project
… e.g. making parking, heating, etc. more efficient
… very clear connection between climate crisis and smart cities
… connection should be made in the charter

<kirkwood> sorry I had to jump off session, I am in NYC and v involved w/ gov’t in creation of our digital technology environment. unfortnunately needed to drop. woked for environmental protection & on cognitive accessibility task force

dersen: have partner cities throughout the world

<kirkwood> I am in New York, NY, USA

dersen: also TMforum

<kirkwood> yes

dersen: EU project is called "Viable Cities"
… I also noticed that Larsen joined, has been working on similar projects

larsen: let me give a short introduction
… I am with RISE research

<Zakim> clauspopp, you wanted to react to daniel

larsen: working with cities on how to build up capacity to collect and share data
… working with 18 cities, including all the large ones
… started with a minimum technical framework: data, platform, services
… APIs, data models
… also principles around openness
… really difficult part is not technical, but organizational; for example, who owns the data
… if supplier owns it, they can't share it, have to worry about classification, etc.
… then all the problems with finance, business models
… regarding W3C, sounds interesting what you are doing

kaz: main purpose of this group is asking stakeholders for input and defining pain points and requirements
… what are the gaps?

mccool: strongly agree that sustainability belongs somewhere in the charter

kirk: in US, NYC
… one issue right now is making sure we have high-speed access to poorer areas
… has become especially important with COVID-19
… have replaced most of our phone booths with access points
… important to get kids online so they can participate in classes
… distributed (and had to track) thousands of ipads, as well
… also worked in Taipei for a while; currently involved in Accessibility WG
… cognitive important both for neuroatypical and aging communities

kaz: for student access, not only hardware, but all the applications and all the data
… probably hard for existing teachers to access

kirk: should also mention we also do real-time translation into 7 languages
… using Microsoft

mccool: priorities are also important

kaz: to kirkwood; do you have priorities?

kirk: equal access to all despite financial differences
… especially for teaching, but also environmental area
… also worked on GIS for water supply, for example

kaz: Mohammad, did you have any opinions here?

mccool: what are the factors that affect accessibility?

<kirkwood> Look forward to the potential to continue discussion, sorry needed to drop.

<Zakim> Rob, you wanted to react to kirkwood

<Zakim> McCool, you wanted to react to Rob

<kirkwood> I will follow in IRC.

smith: simple answer is interoperability; website that follows standards is better than app with proprate
… apis, models, open; browser, widely available, not tied to specific devices
… also business models

eric: interesting issue about availability of data
… but how do we resolve the difference in policies around privacy in different countries
… some are more restrictive, some governments require access to all data
… also supplier ownership, also information can be inferred from what seems like innocus data

smith: there have been some examples where roads in military bases were revealed by exersise tracking data

larsen: are you assuming there will be some access control

mccool: I'd like to point out the Solid CG work, who are looking at mechanisms to share private data in a controlled way
… but are two issues, technical and policy

larsen: who owns data is an issue; right now EULAs tend to state this
… sometimes in ways that are a little troubling

eric: excellent point, and makes it clear why we need to get cities involved so we can understand the legal ramifications

kaz: also mentioned these kinds of issues during workshop; have included some points about data governance
… and the point of the group is not to generate standards itself, but to gather pain points, requirements, and priorities

larsen: is it part of the IG to understand what other SDOs are doing?

kaz: yes, we have a list of other SDOs we need to collaborate with and review

eric: one of the things we struggled with 2-3 years ago; we were looking at IoT ecosystem, which is a total mess
… lack of coordinate and common language is a big problem in IoT, and will hold back Smart Cities too
… we need to figure out the focus that W3C can make the most impact
… we *don't* want to duplicate work already done elsewhere

<RobSmith> Spatial Data on the Web recently published a guidance document on location data privacy: https://w3c.github.io/sdw/responsible-use/

kaz: W3C WoT is working in the area of IoT; Smart Cities arose out of some use cases in IoT but is a much broader topic

smith: spatial data on the web, now a WG
… interested in location side of this
… we published a Note on location data
… and its privacy considerations, e.g. where you are and where you aren't

Wrap-up

mccool: next steps?

kaz: we should at least update draft charter based on discussions in these breakouts
… and we need to reach out to other smart citie stakeholders

<kaz> https://github.com/w3c/wot/issues

mccool: I suggest we create some issues in github around some of the issues raised, eg. sustainability

kaz: now we are using the w3c/wot report for now; create issues and label them with "Smart Cities"

eric: did anyone attend the sustainability breakout? there is a separate conversation whether this should be a horizontal requirement
… current formal objects to DIDs is bitcoin mining is very expensive; blockchain is expensive
… consumption of electricity is not the same as carbon emission; and there are other things like video that also consume a lot of power
… if we include sustainability, those issues will come up

mccool: although I think sustainability would have some up anyway, e.g. distributed energy management

kaz: we should clarify our expectations

<kaz> <ashimura@w3.org>

kaz: so please give your comments on a github issue, or if you would prefer send me a private email

kaz: unfortunately, time to close thanks to all the attendees!

<kaz> [adjourned]

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 136 (Thu May 27 13:50:24 2021 UTC).