IRC log of smart-cities on 2021-10-21

Timestamps are in UTC.

07:11:08 [RRSAgent]
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logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/10/21-smart-cities-irc
07:11:10 [dom]
RRSAgent, stay
07:11:14 [dom]
RRSAgent, make log public
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rrsagent, bye
13:29:27 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items
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logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/10/21-smart-cities-irc
13:29:49 [kaz]
meeting: Smart Cities Breakout - Day 2
13:53:19 [kirkwood]
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13:58:45 [kaz]
present+ Kaz_Ashimura__W3C
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14:05:34 [kaz]
-> https://www.w3.org/2021/06/smartcities-workshop/index.html workshop page
14:05:46 [kaz]
-> https://www.w3.org/2021/06/smartcities-workshop/report.html workshop report
14:06:03 [kaz]
-> https://w3c.github.io/wot/charters/smart-cities/diff.html proposed IG Charter
14:06:38 [kaz]
i/workshop page/topic: Discussion/
14:06:56 [McCool]
kaz: introduces charter and workshop
14:07:09 [McCool]
... charter has been updated to reflect discussion during workshop
14:07:24 [McCool]
... updated use cases and scope
14:07:33 [kaz]
Survey on the existing technologies and standards for Smart Cities (Technology Landscape)
14:07:33 [kaz]
Best Practices on what technologies, e.g., WoT, Automotive, Geospatial, VR/AR, Speech and Semantic Web, to be applied for what kind of Smart Cities applications, e.g., improved accessibility, visitor guidance and energy management.
14:07:34 [kaz]
Use cases and requirements for Smart Cities
14:07:47 [McCool]
... proposed main purpose is survey of existing technologies and standards
14:08:20 [McCool]
eric: reviewed this draft, was thinking scope should include "identification of stakeholders"
14:09:00 [McCool]
kaz: would like to give background, then summarize first session, then we can discuss improvements
14:09:11 [McCool]
kaz: (reviews first session minutes)
14:09:29 [McCool]
kaz: eric already mentioned outreach
14:10:10 [dom]
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14:10:40 [McCool]
mccool: another point that showed up in the last session was making sure services were accessible, i.e. to people without computers
14:11:19 [McCool]
kaz: based on discussion in first session we are also looking at updating the charter e.g. to list stakeholder
14:12:29 [McCool]
mccool: I believe I also mentioned coordination with smart building WGs and SDOs
14:12:51 [McCool]
kaz: (reviews existing list of SDOs and groups in charter)
14:14:06 [McCool]
eric: looking at the country list?
14:14:20 [McCool]
kaz: not actually a list of countries, but orgs; ASEAN, etc.
14:14:47 [McCool]
eric: ASEAN is southeast asia; do want to communicate importance of Japan, Taiwan, etc.
14:15:19 [McCool]
... proposing that that area is where we should initially focus, as they are most open to coordinated effort
14:16:24 [McCool]
mccool: also noticed the "Smart Cities Council" is not there; but agree that asian cities are a good starting point
14:16:41 [McCool]
kaz: right; but to be clear, I just wanted to review the last session and the current status
14:16:54 [Ryuichi]
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14:17:30 [McCool]
kaz: although regarding asian cities, I live in Japan and can work with the Japanese government
14:18:02 [McCool]
... and we already have relationship with Singapore
14:18:23 [McCool]
kaz: would also like to point out discussion of accessibility issues
14:18:36 [McCool]
... including cognitive issues
14:19:01 [McCool]
kaz: would like to ask participants here for further comments
14:19:03 [kaz]
q+ daniel
14:19:07 [kaz]
ack d
14:19:19 [McCool]
dersen: nordic chapter, sweden
14:19:39 [McCool]
... involved in a test for climate neutral smart city project
14:19:53 [McCool]
... e.g. making parking, heating, etc. more efficient
14:20:18 [McCool]
... very clear connection between climate crisis and smart cities
14:20:33 [McCool]
... connection should be made in the charter
14:20:35 [McCool]
q?
14:20:37 [McCool]
q+
14:20:47 [kirkwood]
sorry I had to jump off session, I am in NYC and v involved w/ gov’t in creation of our digital technology environment. unfortnunately needed to drop. woked for environmental protection & on cognitive accessibility task force
14:21:13 [kaz]
q+ kirkwood
14:21:14 [McCool]
... have partner cities throughout the world
14:21:17 [kirkwood]
I am in New York, NY, USA
14:21:36 [clauspopp]
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14:22:04 [McCool]
... also TMforum
14:23:30 [kaz]
q?
14:23:35 [McCool]
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14:23:48 [kirkwood]
yes
14:23:54 [McCool]
... EU project is called "Viable Cities"
14:24:24 [McCool]
... I also noticed that Larsen joined, has been working on similar projects
14:24:38 [McCool]
larsen: let me give a short introduction
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14:24:47 [Eric_Siow]
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14:24:47 [McCool]
... I am with RISE research
14:24:48 [kaz]
qq+ clauspopp
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14:24:52 [kaz]
ack cl
14:24:52 [Zakim]
clauspopp, you wanted to react to daniel
14:25:03 [McCool]
... working with cities on how to build up capacity to collect and share data
14:25:14 [McCool]
... working with 18 cities, including all the large ones
14:25:30 [McCool]
... started with a minimum technical framework: data, platform, services
14:25:37 [McCool]
... APIs, data models
14:25:59 [McCool]
... also principles around openness
14:26:18 [McCool]
... really difficult part is not technical, but organizational; for example, who owns the data
14:26:34 [McCool]
... if supplier owns it, they can't share it, have to worry about classification, etc.
14:26:59 [McCool]
... then all the problems with finance, business models
14:27:04 [kaz]
q?
14:27:16 [McCool]
... regarding W3C, sounds interesting what you are doing
14:27:41 [McCool]
kaz: main purpose of this group is asking stakeholders for input and defining pain points and requirements
14:27:55 [McCool]
... what are the gaps?
14:28:01 [kaz]
q?
14:28:03 [kaz]
ack mc
14:28:10 [kaz]
mm: sustainability
14:28:19 [kaz]
... belong somewhere in charter
14:28:20 [kaz]
... +1
14:28:30 [kaz]
ack kirk
14:28:36 [McCool]
mccool: strongly agree that sustainability belongs somewhere in the charter
14:28:52 [McCool]
kirk: in US, NYC
14:29:27 [McCool]
... one issue right now is making sure we have high-speed access to poorer areas
14:29:39 [McCool]
... has become especially important with COVID-19
14:29:55 [McCool]
... have replaced most of our phone booths with access points
14:30:14 [McCool]
... important to get kids online so they can participate in classes
14:30:29 [McCool]
... distributed (and had to track) thousands of ipads, as well
14:31:16 [McCool]
... also worked in Taipei for a while; currently involved in Accessibility WG
14:31:51 [McCool]
... cognitive important both for neuroatypical and aging communities
14:32:50 [McCool]
kaz: for student access, not only hardware, but all the applications and all the data
14:33:06 [McCool]
... probably hard for existing teachers to access
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14:33:47 [McCool]
kirk: should also mention we also do real-time translation into 7 languages
14:34:05 [McCool]
... using Microsoft
14:34:19 [McCool]
q?
14:34:46 [McCool]
mccool: priorities are also important
14:34:58 [McCool]
kaz: to kirkwood; do you have priorities?
14:35:17 [McCool]
kirk: equal access to all despite financial differences
14:35:38 [McCool]
... especially for teaching, but also environmental area
14:35:40 [kaz]
q?
14:35:53 [McCool]
... also worked on GIS for water supply, for example
14:36:39 [McCool]
kaz: Mohammad, did you have any opinions here?
14:37:03 [kaz]
q?
14:37:47 [McCool]
mccool: what are the factors that affect accessibility?
14:37:50 [kirkwood]
Look forward to the potential to continue discussion, sorry needed to drop.
14:37:54 [kaz]
qq+ Rob
14:38:01 [kaz]
ack r
14:38:01 [Zakim]
Rob, you wanted to react to kirkwood
14:38:49 [kaz]
qq+ McCool
14:38:53 [kaz]
ack m
14:38:53 [Zakim]
McCool, you wanted to react to Rob
14:39:04 [kirkwood]
I will follow in IRC.
14:39:27 [McCool]
smith: simple answer is interoperability; website that follows standards is better than app with proprate
14:39:51 [McCool]
... apis, models, open; browser, widely available, not tied to specific devices
14:40:03 [McCool]
... also business models
14:40:11 [kaz]
q+ Eric_Siow
14:40:15 [kaz]
ack e
14:40:20 [McCool]
eric: interesting issue about availablility of data
14:40:41 [McCool]
... but how do we resolve the difference in policies around privacy in different countries
14:40:44 [kaz]
s/availablility/availability/
14:41:18 [kaz]
q+ McCool
14:41:25 [kaz]
ack m
14:41:32 [McCool]
... some are more restrictive, some governments require access to all data
14:41:58 [McCool]
... also supplier ownership, also information can be inferred from what seems like innocus data
14:42:09 [kaz]
q?
14:42:47 [McCool]
smith: there have been some examples where roads in military bases were revealed by exersise tracking data
14:42:58 [kaz]
q+ claus
14:43:01 [kaz]
ack c
14:43:09 [McCool]
larsen: are you assuming there will be some access control
14:43:13 [McCool]
q+
14:44:48 [McCool]
mccool: I'd like to point out the Solid CG work, who are looking at mechanisms to share private data in a controlled way
14:45:04 [McCool]
... but are two issues, technical and policy
14:45:46 [McCool]
larsen: who owns data is an issue; right now EULAs tend to state this
14:46:00 [McCool]
... sometimes in ways that are a little troubling
14:46:06 [kaz]
q+ Eric_Siow
14:46:09 [kaz]
ack m
14:46:11 [kaz]
ack e
14:46:31 [McCool]
eric: excellent point, and makes it clear why we need to get cities involved so we can understand the legal ramifications
14:47:27 [McCool]
kaz: also mentioned these kinds of issues during workshop; have included some points about data governance
14:47:52 [kaz]
q?
14:47:57 [McCool]
... and the point of the group is not to generate standards itself, but to gather pain points, requirements, and priorities
14:48:11 [kaz]
q+ claus
14:48:13 [kaz]
ack c
14:48:27 [McCool]
larsen: is it part of the IG to understand what other SDOs are doing?
14:48:46 [McCool]
kaz: yes, we have a list of other SDOs we need to collaborate with and review
14:49:14 [kaz]
q?
14:49:27 [McCool]
eric: one of the things we struggled with 2-3 years ago; we were looking at IoT ecosystem, which is a total mess
14:49:55 [McCool]
... lack of coordinate and common language is a big problem in IoT, and will hold back Smart Cities too
14:50:17 [McCool]
... we need to figure out the focus that W3C can make the most impact
14:50:35 [McCool]
... we *don't* want to duplicate work already done elsewhere
14:51:03 [RobSmith]
Spatial Data on the Web recently published a guidance document on location data privacy: https://w3c.github.io/sdw/responsible-use/
14:51:14 [kaz]
q?
14:51:21 [RobSmith]
q+
14:52:11 [McCool]
kaz: W3C WoT is working in the area of IoT; Smart Cities arose out of some use cases in IoT but is a much broader topic
14:52:22 [kaz]
ack r
14:52:37 [McCool]
smith: spatial data on the web, now a WG
14:52:44 [McCool]
... interested in location side of this
14:52:51 [McCool]
... we published a Note on location data
14:53:11 [McCool]
... and its privacy considerations, e.g. where you are and where you aren't
14:53:39 [kaz]
q?
14:53:52 [kaz]
topic: Wrap-up
14:54:00 [McCool]
mccool: next steps?
14:54:23 [McCool]
kaz: we should at least update draft charter based on discussions in these breakouts
14:54:36 [McCool]
... and we need to reach out to other smart citie stakeholders
14:55:57 [kaz]
https://github.com/w3c/wot/issues
14:56:01 [McCool]
mccool: I suggest we create some issues in github around some of the issues raised, eg. sustainability
14:56:38 [McCool]
kaz: not we are using the w3c/wot report for now; create issues and label them with "Smart Cities"
14:56:52 [kaz]
q+ Eric_Siow
14:56:54 [kaz]
ack e
14:57:10 [McCool]
eric: did anyone attend the sustainability breakout? there is a separate conversation whether this should be a horizontal requirement
14:57:48 [McCool]
... current formal objects to DIDs is bitcoin mining is very expensive; blockchain is expensive
14:58:20 [kaz]
q?
14:58:24 [McCool]
... consumption of electricity is not the same as carbon emission; and there are other things like video that also consume a lot of power
14:59:08 [McCool]
... if we include sustainability, those issues will come up
14:59:33 [McCool]
mccool: although I think sustainability would have some up anyway, e.g. distributed energy management
14:59:51 [McCool]
kaz: we should clarify our expectations
15:00:05 [kaz]
<ashimura@w3.org>
15:00:13 [McCool]
... so please give your comments on a github issue, or if you would prefer send me a private email
15:00:31 [McCool]
kaz: unfortunately, time to close thanks to all the attendees!
15:00:55 [kaz]
[adjourned]
15:01:03 [kaz]
rrsagent, make log public
15:01:07 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
15:01:07 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/10/21-smart-cities-minutes.html kaz
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