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07:11:10 <dom> RRSAgent, stay
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13:29:27 <kaz> rrsagent, bye
13:29:27 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
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13:29:49 <kaz> meeting: Smart Cities Breakout - Day 2
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13:58:45 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura__W3C
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14:05:34 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/2021/06/smartcities-workshop/index.html workshop page
14:05:46 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/2021/06/smartcities-workshop/report.html workshop report
14:06:03 <kaz> -> https://w3c.github.io/wot/charters/smart-cities/diff.html proposed IG Charter
14:06:38 <kaz> i/workshop page/topic: Discussion/
14:06:56 <McCool> kaz: introduces charter and workshop
14:07:09 <McCool> ... charter has been updated to reflect discussion during workshop
14:07:24 <McCool> ... updated use cases and scope
14:07:33 <kaz>  Survey on the existing technologies and standards for Smart Cities (Technology Landscape)
14:07:33 <kaz>  Best Practices on what technologies, e.g., WoT, Automotive, Geospatial, VR/AR, Speech and Semantic Web, to be applied for what kind of Smart Cities applications, e.g., improved accessibility, visitor guidance and energy management.
14:07:34 <kaz>  Use cases and requirements for Smart Cities
14:07:47 <McCool> ... proposed main purpose is survey of existing technologies and standards
14:08:20 <McCool> eric: reviewed this draft, was thinking scope should include "identification of stakeholders"
14:09:00 <McCool> kaz: would like to give background, then summarize first session, then we can discuss improvements
14:09:11 <McCool> kaz: (reviews first session minutes)
14:09:29 <McCool> kaz: eric already mentioned outreach
14:10:10 <dom> dom has joined #smart-cities
14:10:40 <McCool> mccool: another point that showed up in the last session was making sure services were accessible, i.e. to people without computers
14:11:19 <McCool> kaz: based on discussion in first session we are also looking at updating the charter e.g. to list stakeholder
14:12:29 <McCool> mccool: I believe I also mentioned coordination with smart building WGs and SDOs
14:12:51 <McCool> kaz: (reviews existing list of SDOs and groups in charter)
14:14:06 <McCool> eric: looking at the country list?
14:14:20 <McCool> kaz: not actually a list of countries, but orgs; ASEAN, etc.
14:14:47 <McCool> eric: ASEAN is southeast asia; do want to communicate importance of Japan, Taiwan, etc.
14:15:19 <McCool> ... proposing that that area is where we should initially focus, as they are most open to coordinated effort
14:16:24 <McCool> mccool: also noticed the "Smart Cities Council" is not there; but agree that asian cities are a good starting point
14:16:41 <McCool> kaz: right; but to be clear, I just wanted to review the last session and the current status
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14:17:30 <McCool> kaz: although regarding asian cities, I live in Japan and can work with the Japanese government
14:18:02 <McCool> ... and we already have relationship with Singapore
14:18:23 <McCool> kaz: would also like to point out discussion of accessibility issues
14:18:36 <McCool> ... including cognitive issues
14:19:01 <McCool> kaz: would like to ask participants here for further comments
14:19:03 <kaz> q+ daniel
14:19:07 <kaz> ack d
14:19:19 <McCool> dersen: nordic chapter, sweden
14:19:39 <McCool> ... involved in a test for climate neutral smart city project
14:19:53 <McCool> ... e.g. making parking, heating, etc. more efficient
14:20:18 <McCool> ... very clear connection between climate crisis and smart cities
14:20:33 <McCool> ... connection should be made in the charter
14:20:35 <McCool> q?
14:20:37 <McCool> q+
14:20:47 <kirkwood> sorry I had to jump off session, I am in NYC and v involved w/ gov’t in creation of our digital technology  environment. unfortnunately needed to drop. woked for environmental protection & on cognitive accessibility task force
14:21:13 <kaz> q+ kirkwood
14:21:14 <McCool> ... have partner cities throughout the world
14:21:17 <kirkwood> I am in New York, NY, USA
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14:22:04 <McCool> ... also TMforum
14:23:30 <kaz> q?
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14:23:48 <kirkwood> yes
14:23:54 <McCool> ... EU project is called "Viable Cities"
14:24:24 <McCool> ... I also noticed that Larsen joined, has been working on similar projects
14:24:38 <McCool> larsen: let me give a short introduction
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14:24:47 <McCool> ... I am with RISE research
14:24:48 <kaz> qq+ clauspopp
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14:24:52 <kaz> ack cl
14:24:52 <Zakim> clauspopp, you wanted to react to daniel
14:25:03 <McCool> ... working with cities on how to build up capacity to collect and share data
14:25:14 <McCool> ... working with 18 cities, including all the large ones
14:25:30 <McCool> ... started with a minimum technical framework: data, platform, services
14:25:37 <McCool> ... APIs, data models
14:25:59 <McCool> ... also principles around openness
14:26:18 <McCool> ... really difficult part is not technical, but organizational; for example, who owns the data
14:26:34 <McCool> ... if supplier owns it, they can't share it, have to worry about classification, etc.
14:26:59 <McCool> ... then all the problems with finance, business models
14:27:04 <kaz> q?
14:27:16 <McCool> ... regarding W3C, sounds interesting what you are doing
14:27:41 <McCool> kaz: main purpose of this group is asking stakeholders for input and defining pain points and requirements
14:27:55 <McCool> ... what are the gaps?
14:28:01 <kaz> q?
14:28:03 <kaz> ack mc
14:28:10 <kaz> mm: sustainability
14:28:19 <kaz> ... belong somewhere in charter
14:28:20 <kaz> ... +1
14:28:30 <kaz> ack kirk
14:28:36 <McCool> mccool: strongly agree that sustainability belongs somewhere in the charter
14:28:52 <McCool> kirk: in US, NYC
14:29:27 <McCool> ... one issue right now is making sure we have high-speed access to poorer areas
14:29:39 <McCool> ... has become especially important with COVID-19
14:29:55 <McCool> ... have replaced most of our phone booths with access points
14:30:14 <McCool> ... important to get kids online so they can participate in classes
14:30:29 <McCool> ... distributed (and had to track) thousands of ipads, as well
14:31:16 <McCool> ... also worked in Taipei for a while; currently involved in Accessibility WG
14:31:51 <McCool> ... cognitive important both for neuroatypical and aging communities
14:32:50 <McCool> kaz: for student access, not only hardware, but all the applications and all the data
14:33:06 <McCool> ... probably hard for existing teachers to access
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14:33:47 <McCool> kirk: should also mention we also do real-time translation into 7 languages
14:34:05 <McCool> ... using Microsoft
14:34:19 <McCool> q?
14:34:46 <McCool> mccool: priorities are also important
14:34:58 <McCool> kaz: to kirkwood; do you have priorities?
14:35:17 <McCool> kirk: equal access to all despite financial differences
14:35:38 <McCool> ... especially for teaching, but also environmental area
14:35:40 <kaz> q?
14:35:53 <McCool> ... also worked on GIS for water supply, for example
14:36:39 <McCool> kaz: Mohammad, did you have any opinions here?
14:37:03 <kaz> q?
14:37:47 <McCool> mccool: what are the factors that affect accessibility?
14:37:50 <kirkwood> Look forward to the potential to continue discussion, sorry needed to drop.
14:37:54 <kaz> qq+ Rob
14:38:01 <kaz> ack r
14:38:01 <Zakim> Rob, you wanted to react to kirkwood
14:38:49 <kaz> qq+ McCool
14:38:53 <kaz> ack m
14:38:53 <Zakim> McCool, you wanted to react to Rob
14:39:04 <kirkwood> I will follow in IRC.
14:39:27 <McCool> smith: simple answer is interoperability; website that follows standards is better than app with proprate
14:39:51 <McCool> ... apis, models, open; browser, widely available, not tied to specific devices
14:40:03 <McCool> ... also business models
14:40:11 <kaz> q+ Eric_Siow
14:40:15 <kaz> ack e
14:40:20 <McCool> eric: interesting issue about availablility of data
14:40:41 <McCool> ... but how do we resolve the difference in policies around privacy in different countries
14:40:44 <kaz> s/availablility/availability/
14:41:18 <kaz> q+ McCool
14:41:25 <kaz> ack m
14:41:32 <McCool> ... some are more restrictive, some governments require access to all data
14:41:58 <McCool> ... also supplier ownership, also information can be inferred from what seems like innocus data
14:42:09 <kaz> q?
14:42:47 <McCool> smith: there have been some examples where roads in military bases were revealed by exersise tracking data
14:42:58 <kaz> q+ claus
14:43:01 <kaz> ack c
14:43:09 <McCool> larsen: are you assuming there will be some access control
14:43:13 <McCool> q+
14:44:48 <McCool> mccool: I'd like to point out the Solid CG work, who are looking at mechanisms to share private data in a controlled way
14:45:04 <McCool> ... but are two issues, technical and policy
14:45:46 <McCool> larsen: who owns data is an issue; right now EULAs tend to state this
14:46:00 <McCool> ... sometimes in ways that are a little troubling
14:46:06 <kaz> q+ Eric_Siow
14:46:09 <kaz> ack m
14:46:11 <kaz> ack e
14:46:31 <McCool> eric: excellent point, and makes it clear why we need to get cities involved so we can understand the legal ramifications
14:47:27 <McCool> kaz: also mentioned these kinds of issues during workshop; have included some points about data governance
14:47:52 <kaz> q?
14:47:57 <McCool> ... and the point of the group is not to generate standards itself, but to gather pain points, requirements, and priorities
14:48:11 <kaz> q+ claus
14:48:13 <kaz> ack c
14:48:27 <McCool> larsen: is it part of the IG to understand what other SDOs are doing?
14:48:46 <McCool> kaz: yes, we have a list of other SDOs we need to collaborate with and review
14:49:14 <kaz> q?
14:49:27 <McCool> eric: one of the things we struggled with 2-3 years ago; we were looking at IoT ecosystem, which is a total mess
14:49:55 <McCool> ... lack of coordinate and common language is a big problem in IoT, and will hold back Smart Cities too
14:50:17 <McCool> ... we need to figure out the focus that W3C can make the most impact
14:50:35 <McCool> ... we *don't* want to duplicate work already done elsewhere
14:51:03 <RobSmith> Spatial Data on the Web recently published a guidance document on location data privacy: https://w3c.github.io/sdw/responsible-use/
14:51:14 <kaz> q?
14:51:21 <RobSmith> q+
14:52:11 <McCool> kaz: W3C WoT is working in the area of IoT; Smart Cities arose out of some use cases in IoT but is a much broader topic
14:52:22 <kaz> ack r
14:52:37 <McCool> smith: spatial data on the web, now a WG
14:52:44 <McCool> ... interested in location side of this
14:52:51 <McCool> ... we published a Note on location data
14:53:11 <McCool> ... and its privacy considerations, e.g. where you are and where you aren't
14:53:39 <kaz> q?
14:53:52 <kaz> topic: Wrap-up
14:54:00 <McCool> mccool: next steps?
14:54:23 <McCool> kaz: we should at least update draft charter based on discussions in these breakouts
14:54:36 <McCool> ... and we need to reach out to other smart citie stakeholders
14:55:57 <kaz> https://github.com/w3c/wot/issues
14:56:01 <McCool> mccool: I suggest we create some issues in github around some of the issues raised, eg. sustainability
14:56:38 <McCool> kaz: not we are using the w3c/wot report for now; create issues and label them with "Smart Cities"
14:56:52 <kaz> q+ Eric_Siow
14:56:54 <kaz> ack e
14:57:10 <McCool> eric: did anyone attend the sustainability breakout?  there is a separate conversation whether this should be a horizontal requirement
14:57:48 <McCool> ... current formal objects to DIDs is bitcoin mining is very expensive; blockchain is expensive
14:58:20 <kaz> q?
14:58:24 <McCool> ... consumption of electricity is not the same as carbon emission; and there are other things like video that also consume a lot of power
14:59:08 <McCool> ... if we include sustainability, those issues will come up
14:59:33 <McCool> mccool: although I think sustainability would have some up anyway, e.g. distributed energy management
14:59:51 <McCool> kaz: we should clarify our expectations
15:00:05 <kaz> <ashimura@w3.org>
15:00:13 <McCool> ... so please give your comments on a github issue, or if you would prefer send me a private email
15:00:31 <McCool> kaz: unfortunately, time to close thanks to all the attendees!
15:00:55 <kaz> [adjourned]
15:01:03 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
15:01:07 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:01:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/10/21-smart-cities-minutes.html kaz
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