Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference

23 Sep 2021


Rain_, stevelee, krisannekinney, Roy, JulieRawe, cweidner, Fazio, kirkwood
Lisa, Chris, JohnR, EA, Albert, Jennie


<Rain_> chair: Rain_

<scribe> Scribe: krisannekinney

[15 mins] Check in with all sub-groups and action requests - https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/wiki/PlanningPage

john and julie co-leads on the subgroup for plain language

julie: helping organize the project. Key questions we want to work out and research to get. things like : when giving guidance on common words, 1500 most frequently used words? align with content usable. getting to granular questions.
... getting into shape over the next month
... plain vs clear vs easy to understand language

<Fazio> we will run into problems with internationalization

David: discussions about this being western focused - how do we internationalize with this?
... how do we account for other languages and character formats? Something important to keep in mind.

Rain: content usable does reference the 1500 most common words and is it appropriate to reference for Silver.

David: ping Rachael - she was working on that for Silver.

Julie: keeping internationalization at top of mind.

John K: with Department of Education in NY we had to do things in 9 languages and plain language was integrated into that to cover from a legal perspective. May be some good information in the group that I worked with there.

John K: if you need that info, please loop me in.

David: TPAC 2019 it was brought up that there is an aircraft maintenance manual how to translate technical documents from one language to another - could be a good guide because its critical to have very clear translations. can't use the same word that could be interpreted two ways in the same paragraph.
... to avoid confusing people who have cog issues or speak different languages.

<kirkwood> https://www.schools.nyc.gov/about-us/policies/language-access-policy

Julie: we have some documentation about those types of issues in the current draft

Rain: anyone that has the bandwidth and time to be part of the effort please feel free to do so.
... group will be asked to review the document when it is in good form to do so.
... moving onto John K about the guardianship draft

John K: we haven't met about it I will get back in touch with Jennie about it.

Chris: no updates

David: APA is moving forward with SAUR document
... publications coming up for review : media queries. nothing specific they have asked COGA to work on.
... mental health - reviewing schizophrenia documents and implications for the internet. no qual information as to the experiences, but using the web doesn't mostly adversely affect those users. More research is needed.

<Rain_> Kris Anne: nothing new from EO right now

Steve: no updates for the prototype group

Roy: community group join issues should have been resolved.

John: I can't see the email addresses yet

Roy: need to change the permissions for that.

Rain: on behalf of Jennie and John K the images subgroup sent a request for comment.

<Rain_> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sAtx8jX8mV8fZdQW5qOYpMaEkL_NuetEVHZLgGo2yy0/edit#heading=h.3o00x71n54fd

Rain: got a few responses on font use - what we're looking for is what font the graphic designer should use when creating example illustrations of our patterns. find the best font we can think of for these illustrations .
... the 4 we ended up offering up are Poppins, Comic Neue, Arial and Open Sans.
... they are all sans serif fonts.

John K: do we have a concensus on sans serif fonts?

Rain: so far all the published guidance says to use sans serif, but other people are doing more research on this topic.

<EA> +1

Julie: my gut reaction is that the Comic Neue looked like we were recommending something specific. Looks like its making a statement.
... so i voted against that.

EA: for the dyslexia world we did a lot of research. Using the most commonly used font will get more take up than something that looks different than standard web fonts.

Rain: Poppins is in here because when i work with individuals with complex cognitive disabilities, i found that when i send them documents in fonts other than Poppins I have to change it. they find the a easier to read.

EA: as long as it will work in other languages.

Rain: they will be visual representations so they won't be internationalized.

EA: the amount of spacing with Arial is sometimes an issue.

David: they look more cartoonish; children with dyslexia were more likely to select the cartoonish font as the easiest to read.

Rain: they won't see what the font is. We aren't going to name the font in anything.
... depends on what fonts people have grown up looking at that makes the biggest difference.
... have this document that we've been working on with how to work with COGA.
... effort here is to document tools, behaviors, and methods to work with our task force. Recommendations on how to work inclusively with people with cognitive differences.
... will inform the breakout session Jennie is leading at TPAC. Lisa and I are working with Judy to improve the working flows and relationships with other groups too. What works best for us as a group.
... Lisa is specifically interested in the inclusive culture section.
... great to create a subgroup of individuals who can work with the document to clean it up and share it with others.
... lets look at the Inclusive Culture section together.
... Rain made notes on the document in line based on comments from the group.

David: too many modes can be cognitively overwhelming to some people.
... support multiple modes, but don't overwhelm them with too many.

EA: we made the move to Zoom because of how Webex worked and maybe the application is too complex. Type of technology not specific types.

John K: we get a lot of talk about inclusive culture the idea of inclusion is inviting people in - culture of a supportive environment.

+1 to John

EA: really important to allow people to contribute asynchronously
... how can someone contribute after a meeting?

<cweidner> +1 to John

John K: where is information and how difficult is it to help people find things? Make an effort to show people where things are. Digital way-finding.

Rain: Things with the ++ were added later and give input you may have in the document. Agree or disagree. Disagreement helps us create a stronger document.
... we need volunteers to help get this document in a useable form so we can get it out to groups.
... we can come back to that in a future call.
... on the next call we will find owners for the join meetings and break out sessions. Think about what you'd like to spend time on.
... remind all there is this working document to take notes and we have a deadline by the end of September 30th. Next meeting we'd like to go over our statement together. Please take time to look if you can.

Julie: are we looking to call attention to problematic parts AND ways to change them? Or just call attention to problematic parts.

Rain: not sure how many sessions we will have so please give examples for consideration too.

Julie: I was confused about a statement about children

Rain: I think there is opportunity to make it better and risk if we don't express our thoughts.

John K: where have we seen gaps? what are the concerns?

EA: some of the wording is very difficult and vague.
... they need more detailed analysis.

John K: does it seem like the cognitive part isn't fully formed? Can we move it up to that level?

Rain: maybe our next meeting will be a working meeting around it.

Julie: couple specifics where we can suggest rewording, try to easily bring some clarity to UD discussion. Larger issues, below specific changes, secondary changes that point out statements we find unclear. say we could help reword.

Rain: many laws around the world differentiate between rights in ED and disabilities vs. people with health conditions. Seeing something as a health condition undermines the work.
... if you have time and want to be more involved please let Rain know.
... and we need a scribe for next week.

<Rain_> RRSAgent: make minutes

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

[End of minutes]

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Default Present: Rain_, stevelee, krisannekinney, Roy, JulieRawe, cweidner, Fazio, kirkwood
Present: Rain_, stevelee, krisannekinney, Roy, JulieRawe, cweidner, Fazio, kirkwood
Regrets: Lisa, Chris, JohnR, EA, Albert, Jennie
Found Scribe: krisannekinney
Inferring ScribeNick: krisannekinney
Found Date: 23 Sep 2021
People with action items: 

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