<Rain_> chair: Rain_
<scribe> Scribe: krisannekinney
john and julie co-leads on the subgroup for plain language
julie: helping organize the
project. Key questions we want to work out and research to get.
things like : when giving guidance on common words, 1500 most
frequently used words? align with content usable. getting to
granular questions.
... getting into shape over the next month
... plain vs clear vs easy to understand language
<Fazio> we will run into problems with internationalization
David: discussions about this
being western focused - how do we internationalize with
this?
... how do we account for other languages and character
formats? Something important to keep in mind.
Rain: content usable does reference the 1500 most common words and is it appropriate to reference for Silver.
David: ping Rachael - she was working on that for Silver.
Julie: keeping internationalization at top of mind.
John K: with Department of Education in NY we had to do things in 9 languages and plain language was integrated into that to cover from a legal perspective. May be some good information in the group that I worked with there.
John K: if you need that info, please loop me in.
David: TPAC 2019 it was brought
up that there is an aircraft maintenance manual how to
translate technical documents from one language to another -
could be a good guide because its critical to have very clear
translations. can't use the same word that could be interpreted
two ways in the same paragraph.
... to avoid confusing people who have cog issues or speak
different languages.
<kirkwood> https://www.schools.nyc.gov/about-us/policies/language-access-policy
Julie: we have some documentation about those types of issues in the current draft
Rain: anyone that has the
bandwidth and time to be part of the effort please feel free to
do so.
... group will be asked to review the document when it is in
good form to do so.
... moving onto John K about the guardianship draft
John K: we haven't met about it I will get back in touch with Jennie about it.
Chris: no updates
David: APA is moving forward with
SAUR document
... publications coming up for review : media queries. nothing
specific they have asked COGA to work on.
... mental health - reviewing schizophrenia documents and
implications for the internet. no qual information as to the
experiences, but using the web doesn't mostly adversely affect
those users. More research is needed.
<Rain_> Kris Anne: nothing new from EO right now
Steve: no updates for the prototype group
Roy: community group join issues should have been resolved.
John: I can't see the email addresses yet
Roy: need to change the permissions for that.
Rain: on behalf of Jennie and John K the images subgroup sent a request for comment.
Rain: got a few responses on font
use - what we're looking for is what font the graphic designer
should use when creating example illustrations of our patterns.
find the best font we can think of for these illustrations
.
... the 4 we ended up offering up are Poppins, Comic Neue,
Arial and Open Sans.
... they are all sans serif fonts.
John K: do we have a concensus on sans serif fonts?
Rain: so far all the published guidance says to use sans serif, but other people are doing more research on this topic.
<EA> +1
Julie: my gut reaction is that
the Comic Neue looked like we were recommending something
specific. Looks like its making a statement.
... so i voted against that.
EA: for the dyslexia world we did a lot of research. Using the most commonly used font will get more take up than something that looks different than standard web fonts.
Rain: Poppins is in here because when i work with individuals with complex cognitive disabilities, i found that when i send them documents in fonts other than Poppins I have to change it. they find the a easier to read.
EA: as long as it will work in other languages.
Rain: they will be visual representations so they won't be internationalized.
EA: the amount of spacing with Arial is sometimes an issue.
David: they look more cartoonish; children with dyslexia were more likely to select the cartoonish font as the easiest to read.
Rain: they won't see what the
font is. We aren't going to name the font in anything.
... depends on what fonts people have grown up looking at that
makes the biggest difference.
... have this document that we've been working on with how to
work with COGA.
... effort here is to document tools, behaviors, and methods to
work with our task force. Recommendations on how to work
inclusively with people with cognitive differences.
... will inform the breakout session Jennie is leading at TPAC.
Lisa and I are working with Judy to improve the working flows
and relationships with other groups too. What works best for us
as a group.
... Lisa is specifically interested in the inclusive culture
section.
... great to create a subgroup of individuals who can work with
the document to clean it up and share it with others.
... lets look at the Inclusive Culture section together.
... Rain made notes on the document in line based on comments
from the group.
David: too many modes can be
cognitively overwhelming to some people.
... support multiple modes, but don't overwhelm them with too
many.
EA: we made the move to Zoom because of how Webex worked and maybe the application is too complex. Type of technology not specific types.
John K: we get a lot of talk about inclusive culture the idea of inclusion is inviting people in - culture of a supportive environment.
+1 to John
EA: really important to allow
people to contribute asynchronously
... how can someone contribute after a meeting?
<cweidner> +1 to John
John K: where is information and how difficult is it to help people find things? Make an effort to show people where things are. Digital way-finding.
Rain: Things with the ++ were
added later and give input you may have in the document. Agree
or disagree. Disagreement helps us create a stronger
document.
... we need volunteers to help get this document in a useable
form so we can get it out to groups.
... we can come back to that in a future call.
... on the next call we will find owners for the join meetings
and break out sessions. Think about what you'd like to spend
time on.
... remind all there is this working document to take notes and
we have a deadline by the end of September 30th. Next meeting
we'd like to go over our statement together. Please take time
to look if you can.
Julie: are we looking to call attention to problematic parts AND ways to change them? Or just call attention to problematic parts.
Rain: not sure how many sessions we will have so please give examples for consideration too.
Julie: I was confused about a statement about children
Rain: I think there is opportunity to make it better and risk if we don't express our thoughts.
John K: where have we seen gaps? what are the concerns?
EA: some of the wording is very
difficult and vague.
... they need more detailed analysis.
John K: does it seem like the cognitive part isn't fully formed? Can we move it up to that level?
Rain: maybe our next meeting will be a working meeting around it.
Julie: couple specifics where we can suggest rewording, try to easily bring some clarity to UD discussion. Larger issues, below specific changes, secondary changes that point out statements we find unclear. say we could help reword.
Rain: many laws around the world
differentiate between rights in ED and disabilities vs. people
with health conditions. Seeing something as a health condition
undermines the work.
... if you have time and want to be more involved please let
Rain know.
... and we need a scribe for next week.
<Rain_> RRSAgent: make minutes
This is scribe.perl Revision VERSION of 2020-12-31 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: Irssi_ISO8601_Log_Text_Format (score 1.00) Default Present: Rain_, stevelee, krisannekinney, Roy, JulieRawe, cweidner, Fazio, kirkwood Present: Rain_, stevelee, krisannekinney, Roy, JulieRawe, cweidner, Fazio, kirkwood Regrets: Lisa, Chris, JohnR, EA, Albert, Jennie Found Scribe: krisannekinney Inferring ScribeNick: krisannekinney Found Date: 23 Sep 2021 People with action items: WARNING: IRC log location not specified! (You can ignore this warning if you do not want the generated minutes to contain a link to the original IRC log.)[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]