W3C

– DRAFT –
WCAG3 Reliability

21 September 2021

Attendees

Present
Francis_Storr, jeanne, Wilco
Regrets
-
Chair
Wilco
Scribe
jeanne

Meeting minutes

Proposal for Language of Page - Tests

WIlco: Should we reduce the number of tests?
… value in automated tests
… you can use language detection -- given there is enough text -- to determine if the language is correct

,,, should a manual tester check all the language changes?
… change of language is indicated with lang attribute

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1onytB133NRc1EXEOVPizcOqeTi70r2JUcba-LgUyKEY/edit
… If the change of language is made with lang attributes, there should be no overlap because another test checks for that.
… it doesn't have to test if the change is correct, because we have already checked the language.

Wilco: it's a clean division of what needs to be tested.
… we are combinine two success criteria. We already have a number of tests for this.
… it's a large page, but my guess is that it is not going to get much bigger than this.

Jeanne: I like it spread out more. It is clear and easy to understand. Trying to boil everything down makes it harder to understand and implement.

Wilco: it makes it easier to claim exactly what you support.

Functional Needs

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1onytB133NRc1EXEOVPizcOqeTi70r2JUcba-LgUyKEY/edit

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1eJkgXqbh7dx3uD6XAy8XAANmwfbbVZ5GKb_gbsUdkVs/

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1eJkgXqbh7dx3uD6XAy8XAANmwfbbVZ5GKb_gbsUdkVs/edit#heading=h.n89ecixaq6rg

Use without vision

Probably not low vision, except for screenreader use.

USe without vision and hearing

Probably not limited language, because symbol sets use a different attribute than lang

Jeanne: I think we have to be careful not to be fixing the bugs of screenreaders

Use without ability to read

Jeanne: I recommend we run the Braille question by Jason White. Jeanne will take action

Action: Jeanne to contact Jason White about Braille needs for language changes

<Francis_Storr> https://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG21/Understanding/contrast-minimum.html#dfn-text

Defintion of "appropriate language" - generally the two-character language code. Some countries may require the subcode, such as chinese.

Wilco: We are interested in the Outcome and not how it is done

Francis: The screenreader knows the language being used -- it doesn't matter the solution, just the result.

Wilco: if screenreaders get better, then we won't need the language identification. If image detection gets better, than we won't need alt attribute.

Jeanne: Then we make a user agent method, not an author method.

Wilco: I think this Outcome doesn't tell me what is expected.
… for a lay person, this isn't informative

Summary of action items

  1. Jeanne to contact Jason White about Braille needs for language changes
Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 136 (Thu May 27 13:50:24 2021 UTC).

Diagnostics

No scribenick or scribe found. Guessed: jeanne

Maybe present: Francis