13:04:40 RRSAgent has joined #silver-reliability 13:04:41 logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/09/21-silver-reliability-irc 13:04:43 RRSAgent, make logs Public 13:04:44 please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), Wilco 13:04:46 present+ 13:05:05 meeting: WCAG3 Reliability 13:05:05 Francis_Storr has joined #silver-reliability 13:05:23 chair: Wilco 13:05:26 present+ 13:05:48 present+ Francis_Storr 13:06:41 Topic: Proposal for Language of Page - Tests 13:07:02 WIlco: Should we reduce the number of tests? 13:07:22 ... value in automated tests 13:08:20 ... you can use language detection -- given there is enough text -- to determine if the language is correct 13:08:34 ,,, should a manual tester check all the language changes? 13:09:40 ... change of language is indicated with lang attribute 13:12:14 https://docs.google.com/document/d/1onytB133NRc1EXEOVPizcOqeTi70r2JUcba-LgUyKEY/edit 13:13:52 ... If the change of language is made with lang attributes, there should be no overlap because another test checks for that. 13:14:19 ... it doesn't have to test if the change is correct, because we have already checked the language. 13:15:57 Wilco: it's a clean division of what needs to be tested. 13:18:08 ... we are combinine two success criteria. We already have a number of tests for this. 13:19:17 ... it's a large page, but my guess is that it is not going to get much bigger than this. 13:19:56 Jeanne: I like it spread out more. It is clear and easy to understand. Trying to boil everything down makes it harder to understand and implement. 13:20:14 Wilco: it makes it easier to claim exactly what you support. 13:24:44 Topic: Functional Needs 13:24:46 https://docs.google.com/document/d/1onytB133NRc1EXEOVPizcOqeTi70r2JUcba-LgUyKEY/edit 13:25:27 https://docs.google.com/document/d/1eJkgXqbh7dx3uD6XAy8XAANmwfbbVZ5GKb_gbsUdkVs/ 13:26:18 https://docs.google.com/document/d/1eJkgXqbh7dx3uD6XAy8XAANmwfbbVZ5GKb_gbsUdkVs/edit#heading=h.n89ecixaq6rg 13:31:17 Use without vision 13:32:09 Probably not low vision, except for screenreader use. 13:32:16 USe without vision and hearing 13:32:48 Probably not limited language, because symbol sets use a different attribute than lang 13:34:26 Jeanne: I think we have to be careful not to be fixing the bugs of screenreaders 13:37:39 Use without ability to read 13:38:25 Jeanne: I recommend we run the Braille question by Jason White. Jeanne will take action 13:38:59 action: Jeanne to contact Jason White about Braille needs for language changes 13:43:50 https://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG21/Understanding/contrast-minimum.html#dfn-text 13:46:22 Defintion of "appropriate language" - generally the two-character language code. Some countries may require the subcode, such as chinese. 13:46:44 Wilco: We are interested in the Outcome and not how it is done 13:47:20 Francis: The screenreader knows the language being used -- it doesn't matter the solution, just the result. 13:48:22 Wilco: if screenreaders get better, then we won't need the language identification. If image detection gets better, than we won't need alt attribute. 13:48:50 Jeanne: Then we make a user agent method, not an author method. 13:49:23 Wilco: I think this Outcome doesn't tell me what is expected. 13:49:35 ... for a lay person, this isn't informative 13:57:25 zakim, end meeting 13:57:25 As of this point the attendees have been Wilco, jeanne, Francis_Storr 13:57:26 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 13:57:26 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/09/21-silver-reliability-minutes.html Zakim 13:57:30 I am happy to have been of service, Wilco; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye 13:57:35 Zakim has left #silver-reliability 14:28:44 Francis_Storr has joined #silver-reliability 15:03:54 jeanne has joined #silver-reliability 15:08:13 jeanne2 has joined #silver-reliability