Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference

09 Sep 2021


Jennie, JohnRochford, Roy, LisaSeemanKest, julierawe_, kirkwood


<LisaSeemanKest> scribe: Jennie

Updates, actions <https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/wiki/PlanningPage#Timelines_and_actions>

Lisa: today is Understood's meeting
... Smaller meeting with competing conferences, holiday in US on Monday
... We will begin with the review of actions
... John Rochford - any updates on Clear Words?

JohnRochford: Julie, Chris W, Jeanne, Francis and I met this week
... We worked on reconciling the draft with Lisa's comments and revisions, with the text of Lisa's
... We made some progress, and expect to contact you soon to get your feedback again

Lisa: Great. We need the other checkpoints that were not merged in - I will send an email on Sunday to see who wants to help with that task.
... Jennie - images, and TPAC, and guardian draft

Jennie: I have no updates today but hope to have more next week

Lisa: John Kirkwood is working with Jennie correct?

JohnK: yes

Lisa: Chris is not here today. Rachael - do you have updates?

Rachael: no (I think that is what was heard - scribe note)

Lisa: We are working on TPAC. We have a draft outline for the Content Usable panel
... We also have the Community Group starting.

*Thanks Rachael!

Lisa: It is interesting that a lot of people did not know about Content Usable

Meta data and ISO response <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TDPA3R1Y4hVn4Eq9NlRTZ_hg4cpd_8ZtpWoFiVuF_lk/edit>

Lisa: Quick overview: ISO got in touch with us in regards to meta data
... I said yes to discussing this, and forwarded this to the personalization group
... Based on Content Usable - what are the kind of things we can support
... There are 3 parts of this work
... 1. What kinds of things do we want some kind of metadata to say this is supported on this page.
... Like accessible log-in - where help works for me
... I jotted down those things
... 2. The logistics for how you put it in the page as metadata, and what is the vocabulary for this
... That is getting the language for the code
... 3. What do we need in that metadata to know this page supports it?
... What granularity
... The meeting is on Monday

<kirkwood> +1 to line numbers

Jennie: there is a process of using line numbers for reviewing drafts of proposed bills when new laws are drafted

Kirkwood: I agree. I have proposed this in the past as it also impacts legal work

Lisa: I will add that down as a proposal

Jennie: Does a way of navigating to these line numbers help people with cognitive disabilities?

Lisa: I am not sure what the research is on this, and if the adjustable line space may apply

Julierawe_: Is the suggestion about the line numbers - highlighting in the metadata as a feature to help a person understand or something on the page?

<Rachael_> Jennie: I think its a way of making digital spaces more accessible for people with cognitive disabilities. About speed of processing as oposed to cognitive understanding.

<kirkwood> Jennie: make digital spaces more accessibile for speed of understanding

<kirkwood> Jennie: 600 differnent lines, the ability to parse that number to review and participation piece

<Rachael_> ...for individuals with digital numbers, if each item as a line number, the ability to parse a number when referenced is difficult. Active participation piece.

<kirkwood> … legislative process line numers continue to be present.

<kirkwood> Jennie: will put link in chat iof example

Example of a bill as introduced, with line numbers on the left of the page. https://www.revisor.mn.gov/bills/text.php?number=SF374&version=latest&session=ls92&session_year=2021&session_number=0

Lisa: At the top of your page, you can put in the relevance of this page, metadata things you can add
... You can also add conformance to WCAG
... This would be something similar, that would help people identify programmatically that this page supports these groups

<julierawe_> Very helpful, thanks for the background

Lisa: It would make it easier for example for someone with dyslexia to find the content that they needed
... Text to speech support comes to mind. This would be crucial for so many of our users.
... We haven't emphasized it enough because it is in WCAG
... But this also includes phrase by phrase highlighting support
... Basic support
... Correct pronunciation
... Didactic marks, punctuation
... Is it ok if I just add that to it now?

Jennie: +1000

<LisaSeemanKest> are we comfortable sending out this proposal

Julierawe: Text to speech sounds good to me. If search engines start to prioritize sites that highlight such details that could be terrific

Lisa: I think missing is clear page structure, which is also important

Jennie: Do you mean like the way bookmarks in PDF can be matched to headings, then can be used for navigation?

Lisa: Yes, how you do it can be different for an HTML page, but they are both things you can navigate through

Julierawe_: This is a long list of examples in this document. Does the metadata become a proxy for how much of WCAG the site is conforming to? Are we giving a variety of examples
... because it would be helpful for people to highlight all of them?

Lisa: It would be what they do. That is another layer - what granularity they want to go to ...Example: orientation, with a list of all things they did
... Or if each one can be referenced

Jennie: I think about Immersive Reader with Edge when specific code is in place - a tool code expose the information used with this metadata and the user code select what they need

kirkwood: I agree. Even if the options to expose could be built into the browser would be really helpful.

Lisa: Another example: easier language. If this was present, then an individual that needs this could choose to go to that version.

<LisaSeemanKest> are we comfortable sending out this proposal

<LisaSeemanKest> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TDPA3R1Y4hVn4Eq9NlRTZ_hg4cpd_8ZtpWoFiVuF_lk/edit#

Julierawe_: I see a comment from Steve at the top asking for context - I think that would be helpful
... I agree with Jennie, having something that looks like the ARIA spec which tells me of these 5 different pages, this page will have these things will help me
... Users will need to have a certain amount of knowledge, and activated with certain tools
... I think some sort of introduction of how this could be encountered by users would be really helpful

*That should say "user could select what they need"

kirkwood: would it be helpful to have the purpose of this document

Lisa: I will put that right at the top.
... The ARIA type we actually have in personalization support help.
... There is an entire specification for personalization of content.
... That is more like ARIA
... That is actually nearly done.
... That will allow people to tag things on the page, and then at the user end you could add symbols, and do those things.
... These are things not already included in ARIA

<LisaSeemanKest> https://github.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/wiki/Explainer-for-Personalization-Semantics

<LisaSeemanKest> https://www.w3.org/TR/personalization-semantics-content-1.0/

Jennie: Proposed language to add: this would enable the user to identify webpages that have aspects identified in User Story 2.

julierawe_: I was thinking more along the lines of User Story 1, but I find what Jennie added for user story 2 interesting
... For users not using an add-on or tool
... If there were ways for those without a tool - it would be great if they could benefit from this as well
... It is really helpful to see these 2 user stories together.

Lisa: I think this works on User Story 1, but capturing both is good.

julierawe_: Can we add the text to speech to user story 1?

Lisa: done

<LisaSeemanKest> are we comfortable sending out this proposal


<LisaSeemanKest> +1

kirkwood: +1

<LisaSeemanKest> john k is +1

Lisa: Any more concerns?
... Does anyone want more time?

<Rachael_> 0

<Roy> +1

julierawe_: In User Story 1 - isn't essential to include - (suggested edit)
... Thank you - that works

<LisaSeemanKest> resolutions: show this document outside the group

<LisaSeemanKest> next item

RESOLUTION: Share this document with ISO

Lisa: This document has grown a lot
... We don't necessarily have the people on the call that were not happy with it
... The idea was to have a document we can share with groups so they can learn more about working with us
... Items with a ++ indicate discussion items
... (begins with the github comment)
... Proposal: find someone in COGA to tag in github, that person is the person that relays the information

Jennie: I recommend more than one person, assigned by COGA, so that responsibility can be divided up over several people when there are a lot

Rachael: I recommend moving the inclusive culture piece to the top

<kirkwood> +1 to moving inclusive culture up

Lisa: Only RM and AK have reviewed this
... I will move it to the top, but we don't yet have consensus on it.
... Going back to the github comment.

kirkwood: I am comfortable with adding someone that has been assigned to review on behalf of COGA

julierawe_: It seems like the COGA teams preferred method of communication is email - is that correct?

Lisa: We have written this out, because it is not as simple as email.
... Threads of emails can be problematic.

julierawe_: It appears that the github bullet could be at the end of that section because it is different than the others. Also, adding please do not use github might soften the tone a bit.

kirkwood: The W3C uses github for many things, so this is important.

julierawe: some bullets start with please - and because this one is important, it should be there.

Lisa: I added "do not depend"

kirkwood: "solely through github"

<Rachael_> +1 to solely through github.

julierawe_: the one about long threads in emails - is that because it is hard to get your barings on long conversations?

Lisa: Not only when it is a really long thread, it can be hard to track what they want, where they are, what is being said.
... Having a summary would be helpful of the position.

julierawe_: Could we add "please put a short summary at the top"

kirkwood: "please provide a short summary"

Jennie: Perhaps add something like: when a persistent text chat is required, work with COGA on a method like using a Google Doc.

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

  1. Share this document with ISO
[End of minutes]

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.200 (CVS log)
$Date: 2021/09/09 15:05:49 $

Scribe.perl diagnostic output

[Delete this section before finalizing the minutes.]
This is scribe.perl Revision VERSION of 2020-12-31
Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: Irssi_ISO8601_Log_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Default Present: Jennie, JohnRochford, Roy, LisaSeemanKest, julierawe_, kirkwood
Present: Jennie, JohnRochford, Roy, LisaSeemanKest, julierawe_, kirkwood
Found Scribe: Jennie
Inferring ScribeNick: Jennie

WARNING: No meeting chair found!
You should specify the meeting chair like this:
<dbooth> Chair: dbooth

Found Date: 09 Sep 2021
People with action items: 

WARNING: IRC log location not specified!  (You can ignore this 
warning if you do not want the generated minutes to contain 
a link to the original IRC log.)

[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]