<scribe> scribe: slewth
<dmontalvo> https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/WAI_Curricula/WAI_Curricula_Task_Force_Meetings
Dmontalvo: This page has been
updated - with links to current work. There are two
drafts...
... after surveys we now move back and forth between drafts,
for live draft.
... these are the 2 pieces of work we are now working on. Keep
links handy.
... I've updated the link (here in IRC) if you want to use this
as a reference page.
... any questions or comments?
Dmotalvo: Links to previews and drafts I'm working on have been shared. Shall we go through specific changes? Or to detail.
Sloandr: I've not seen this yet.
dmontalvo: we'll go though these.
In the designers curricula there's a need to balance content,
the deisgner decides when too much imagery, distrcaction
... the evaluation was that this was not structured. We need to
look at distraction and overload and the assessment of
this.
... In the second module, we've added further learning outcomes
on further mechanisms on need
... assessing terms, acronyms - also flagged by the evaluation.
The designer has responsibility to flag and annotate these
kinds of issues.
... We also signal on tables, lists, plain text, and other
topics, signals on navigation - assessments for different
navigation mechanisms, to bypass blocks, sometimes these are
over used, can become overwhelming
... so we have this in the topic location mechanism, also for
images we have learning outcomes assessing description
provided, and in animations topic
... whether to use a media player of your own, or whether it's
a media player that supports accessibiltiy
... this is work in progress, these are areas that may need
consideration, or may be overload.
... do we like this, does it make sense - thoughts on this
welcome.
<dmontalvo> https://deploy-preview-389--wai-curricula.netlify.app/curricula/designer-modules/
Estella: Do you want to paste the link? To take it point by point?
dmontalvo: this is the live draft
estella: based on comments from the last meeting, the change on the designer module, I think it's ok.
<dmontalvo> https://wai-curricula.netlify.app/curricula/designer-modules/
estella: it's now flexible - it introduces the term colour. Is this the first question?
dmontalvo: I was asking on
specific learning outcomes on balanacing components vs others.
I don't know if it's coming through clearly.
... I will share my screen
... this one assesses distraction and congnitive overload. Is
this clear where I am
... I was trying to signal when it's too much, when it's too
little, so it's is throughout, not in just one place.
... this one assesses the potential distraction, there are
other ones - this is the only one in this module...
We have several instances, in competencies, assess navigation at the module leavel, and in the different topics we have different ...
assessments, for example bypass blocks. Do you want me to go through the whole module to look at specifics?
sloandr: I think I've got a sense
of what you're trying to do via these examples.
... I've been thinking of ways to extend beyond 'success' as a
verb, to instead selecting appropriate features and so forth
that minimise consequences of something which would then be too
cluttered
... I'm not sure 'assess' is strong enough as a learning
outcome: for example - choose - ie making an informed design
decision,
... beause the negative consequences have been recognised.
DMontalvo: I agree. should this be in the same learning outcome? Or should this be across other topics?
<sloandr> here's an attempt: extend the “assess” clause with a general pattern like “select an appropriate number and of type of [features] given the page’s purpose, in order to minimise [negative effects associated with clutter and complexity]”
DMontalvo: something like: assessing simple graphics - should we put that in the same line, or have this woven through?
Estella: was this a question to David or the group?
Dmontlavo: all thoughts welcome
<sloandr> in other words, "assess" isn't enough, combine "assess" with making a design decision based on the assessment
dmontalvo: yes, it needs to be there in the same line
sloandr: yes, in that line, it's
about making an informed design decision. Overall I agree with
what you're trying to do,
... focus on the whole experience, if you focus on specifics
you can lose the overarching experience
dmontalvo: other thoughts?
Estella: It's on David's line -
make it more specific, moving from broad 'how' to specifics.
You can assess, but how do you assess?
... to make it more practical
dMontalvo: the secon part will be: determining the specific possibility that you have as a designer.
estella: Do you want to turn it into 2? or into single learning outcome?
dmontalvo: these 2 thoughts could
be connected.
... 2 connected in the same line, how much imagery, then which
one to use. You're communicating that these 2 things need to
happen together, so these can't be done in isolation.
... can these be connected in one learning outcome? Or over 2
lines?
estella: The term 'assess' is so general it's a problem. How do you asses? The problem is the verb.
dmontalvo: instead we can say 'determine the amount of mechanisms...'?
estella: yes, this works better - determine is a way of assessing. It adds clarity.
dmontalvo: Dave, do you agree?
sloandr: Determine and assess
could be synonyms
... what are we determining? returning to the learning outcome
- studeents will be able to make an informed decision on what
to inclue and how many to include to take into account the
context of the page and the need to minimise unnecessary
completity and distraction
... so it's a 2 step process, thinking about consequences of a
design decision and modifying if needed to reduce negative
impact
... I'm unsure, whether determine or assess are better words.
My thought is they shouldn't be the only things we need to
cover.
dmontalvo: it's important to have the native english speakers.
sloandr: determine may have a
logic/maths connotation
... maybe we need to look at additional words
... to avoid ambiguity
estella: .Assess is a more general term - understanding and then describing. For me assessing is so open, it will not necessarily be meaningful.
<dmontalvo> Sarah: There will be terminology that goes deeper into forms of assessment that we can go into
<dmontalvo> ... assessment is a whole field of education
<dmontalvo> ... Happy to follow-up with you for the next meeting
slewth: I can bring some key terms from assessment education literature
dmontalvo: From what I've
hearing, this is covering an important aspect of the designer
work, the wording needs some thought, as determine and assess
need refinement, in form of different terms.
... this is important and we should follow this up.
... next item?
dmontalvo: this follows on, this
is very specific on contrast ratio - how would someone apply
contrast ratio, what components they use, text, and so
forth.
... my question is on the flow of teaching, does it make sense
to have this - tools on checking contrast ratio
... determine sufficient color contrast for text, and this is
new, does this work in this sequence?
... wording may require attention, but does the teaching flow
work with this addition on the second bullet point
... for assessing the appropriate levels?
estella: in one of our last
project this came up, this is a very appropriate issue.
Designers must have this. They are aware of typefaces, but
colour contrast they are not aware..
... in terms of guidelines. From my experience, designers are
not aware and this is needed.
sloandr: I agree this is an
important learning outcome. I feel like it's redundant to add a
separate colour contrast, when design layouts with colour
contrast is the next learning outcome
... the determine sufficient colour contrast is redundant in
the learning outcomes, but it is still required in the
topic
... because that includes enabling students to use different
tools and design software to compare, and ensure
contrast...
... but it's probably already covered in the later learning
outcome.
dmontalvo: good point.
... generally you have to design layouts with contrast
dmontalvo... does anyone disagree?
estella: I agree with david, that
contrast should come in from the beginning, but you may find
designers who have already designed, so evaluation of contrast
is needed
... it can be dependent on the number of designers on the
project, and their roles
dmontalvo: it needs to be clear to designers that they need to be involved on contrast
<dmontalvo> https://github.com/w3c/wai-curricula/issues/373
dmontalvo: I will add a
summarising comment, please chime in if needed. The original
commenter is not in this discussion, I will check back with
them.
... any other thoughts on this before we move on?
dmontalvo: moving on.
<dmontalvo> https://github.com/w3c/wai-curricula/issues/391
dmontalvo: I opened this issue
based on one comment that questioned not the contents of
information design, but the existance of that topic. That could
go into other existing modules.
... we did discuss this previously, that it makes sense to have
a key term in the module title, pointing to a designers related
concpet and this is what we decided at the beginning, but I'd
like us to rethink this.
... how these learning outcomes are evolving and the curriculum
is evolving and whether these need to go to different
modules..
... what are your thoughts?
... should we keep the module Information Design, or have
landmarks and spilt between other areas?
estella: ... I think that something more design based is required - the audience type of language should be taken into consideration.
dmontalvo: that makes sense, in the first module there might be a little more restructuring, we might need to make that topic a little more light weight so we can get to specific and landmarks. Current structure may not reflect designer thinking - e.g. starting with headers and regions. I'm working on this and will bring to discussion next week
sloandr: I'm getting confused
between module 2: forms and forms in module 6, I'm sure this is
part of the feedback that led to this
... module 2 has forms in the topic but not in the title, and
module 6 has forms in the title but not the topic
... is this what the commenter is refering too - not sure how
to fix this
... without getting more familiar with the labels topic in
topic 6 and the forms topic in module 2
dmontalvo: in module 6 there
should be a topic on forms, these 2 topics I do plan to have
those merged in a topic called Form Design, that should fix
this issue
... I felt if we leave it til module 6 that's too late, I
wanted an introductory formula there.
... module 6 needs to be update
sloandr: I'd like to see module 6 before commenting on module 2,
estella: I have a question: why
do we have forms in module 6?
... which is covered in module 2? I do see David's point. I
fully agree with him
dmontalvo: there was feedback
that forms form a designers perspective, there's too much
involvement in developing forms. I was trying to bring forward
in module 6, I was looking for insight on how we could
structure that.
... I need to make a proposal and then we can discuss that, it
may be too abstract at present.
... this aimed to be more appealing to designers, relating to
interaction and feedback
... before we decide what to do with module 6 information
design, we need to take this further. This is work in
progress.
... when this is updated we could then comment on whether to
remove the information design, but I'm hearing that we should
keep that until more is in place, in terms of structure and
potential...
... courses that may arise.
... module 6 will be updated by next week, so we can take a
look
... and the other things that we have not discussed. Any other
business?
estella: no
GN: no
dmontalvo: I'll follow up with Sarah and verbs on assess, thank you all for attending
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