Meeting minutes
<shawn> WCAG Video Meeting
<shawn> * Background - [https://
<shawn> * Project Requirements Document - [https://
<shawn> * First set of [https://
<shawn> ** '''Note:''' The videos were designed to '''''not''''' require audio description (all visuals should be sufficiently described in the audio).
<shawn> * [https://
Sample Scripts
<shadi> https://
Shadi: We want small videos for the majority of WCAG guidelines and SCs
… Mainly to explain the requirements. Not benefits in this case, but emphasis on requirements
… For example "Captions"
… We may discard some requirements in the process
… We are not trying to provide more explanations than what there are in the understanding document
… but video gives another (more human) perspective
… We could have up to 20-30 personas, trying to avoid stereotypes and cover different perspectives
… This relates to How People with Disabilities use the Web
… They have now 10-12 (working on the details)
… For caption they have Martine
… Details on the persona are on How People with Disabilities use the Web
… Later on we will be doing a video specific on several personas
… Started with four sample scripts, we need to look at these very closely, study them, do these meet the requirements?
… In the visuals there is a bit on camera angle, but we don't want to focus on this very much as there will be a film director
… But we do want to describe the visuals and audio at the same time, audio and visual should be complementary
… We want these videos to be self-described
… If this is the way to move forward, we will continue with other scripts
… Questions?
Adina: About not using audio description. Did some research. Not sure if it's up for discussion.
<shawn> [ https://
Adina: 1.2.5 AA prerecorded. Audio Descriptions must be provided for all prerecorded video content. If it is just the person talking, audio description is not needed. But if there are things happening you need to inform the user
… For example including who is on stage, who is speaking, entrances, actions, etc
… under 508 refresh, audio description seems to be required even without accommodation request
<shawn> [ Shawn also notes that Access Board folks support https://
Adina: If we don't do audio description, are we going against our own requirements? Or may others perceive that as such?
… Have we approached people in the blind community giving them the audio and visual script and have we asked them if the audio is enough?
Shadi: Good point. I remember discussions on text images, some want to be brief, some not, it depends on what the intent of the imagery.
… There might be now bugs where the audio informationis not adequate for the visuals
<shadi> https://
Shawn: concept of "integrated descriptions" that is what we are trying to do here, we want to integrate the descriptions into the main audio
… It addresses the point, we don't want people to think we are not following the guidelines
… We had videos and put info about why we did not have descriptions
<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to address a few and point to this for last https://
Estella: It is important to think of the scripts with the integrated description approach in mind.
Jason: I appreciate all the work in here
Jade: Why are these four videos chosen to start with?
Shadi: Some of these had the most objections in the survey results
… Survey was maybe not clear for some of the people who had objected
… Some felt these videos were going to be more explanatory
Shawn: I am pretty sure that I had a different understanding when I answered the survey
… Not sure that we want a video for every single requirement
… I think these are the ones we want to talk about first
Adina: Some may have problems parsing any W3C content because it is too much for the brain to take in.
… Something that we are doing is everywhere where there are instructions, we are giving a "Show me" instead for people with different neuro-diverse consumer abilities
<eoncins> +1 to Adina
Shadi: Good point. We may have the opposite, that video content prescribes the timeline and does not let you go at your own pace
… We want to have best of both worlds with video and text resources
Shadi: Is this really the correct scope? Are we staying within the requirements themselves?
… If there is a reason to break this rule, we could do it, but need to be careful with scope creep
… Are we doing OK with integrated descriptions? Do we have the correct visuals?
… Are each of the videos worth doing?
… Do we need to create a different video for example for live captions?
… There is a use case, such as live press conferences, but maybe we can cover it with the one we now have on Captions
Estella: I think there is a need for live and pre-recorded captions
Shadi: We might decide differently for captions than for other requirements, or we may end up doing them.
… As we go through every script we need to ask ourselves if we need to spend resources filming it or we'd better skip it
Estella: Also the way you produce live and pre-recorded captions varies. The services are different.
Shadi: Does the understanding document reflect that?
Jason: For efficiency we may need to repurpose, but it is important to think about how we are presenting it. Maybe if we can cover three criteria and we manage to explain and package them appropriately, that would be good.
… It is going to be difficult to convey that form a cognition perspective
… Interested in helping with the brainstorming
Shadi: There might be times when we decide to use the same video, for example language of a page and language of parts
Jade: Would be odd to have SCs without videos in terms of user expectations
Shadi: Let's focus on 1. explaining the requirements, not going beyond, 2. integrated descriptions, and 3. whether each script is worth filming
Shadi: In terms of workflow, this is now on a wiki, but we are moving to GitHub
… Each script would have its own file, so that we can raise issues on the repository
… You need a GitHub account, then you go to "New Issue", describe it in the title, and contextualize it in the comments.
… See example issue to understand workflow and how to raise an issue
… Making sure people are comfortable with that
… There is also more functionality, where you could do your edits inline and then submit a pull request
Shadi: When there is a problem it is better to raise this as an issue, if you have specific edits you may want to go through a pull request
Adina: You may also want to show people how you can watch, and thus you'll get emails of other people
Shadi: There is already people watching the repository. You could mention people using "@"
… You can filter email based on different flags, there might be a significant amount of GitHub emails
Shadi: Are your issues mostly editorial, Brent?
Brent: Most are editorial
… But we may want to talk about #8
… Maybe it is worth adding the link above the script table for all of the videos
<haltersweb> I like that idea
Shadi: Watching issues is good, so that you do not repeat issues. Sometimes you can also react to comments (thumbs up/down and others)
<haltersweb> My comments are made on my notepad. I will add them here.
Adina: I have some content comments and questions, so I will transfer them over to GitHub
… Under Focus Visible -- at the end, "provide a setting ..." A is not about having a setting, it is only about visible focus. I have had developers asking to have something somewhere so that the focus is shown after clicking a button
Brent: I had the same feeling. Should we be saying that one way to solve this is with a setting?
Brent: You can go ahead and comment on my already existing issue on this.
<JasonMcKee> I have to jump on a call everyone thank you and have a great weekend!
Shadi: You both are right. You sometimes forget that this is going to be further read and interpreted by people in many ways
… We may need to rethink this as "fortunately there is another website which provides focus indicator"
Shawn: Do you want to ask the group to indicate that more clearly in the issues? Maybe with labels?
Shadi: It might be easier for you that as you type your title you use [I] for important and [E] for editorial, and also if you provide labels
… These can be changed later on, this is an evolving process
Adina: 2.3.3 -- parallax is a particular type of effect. This animation would not be necessarily paralax, there are different ways to do such animation and this could be understood as "don't use paralax, use the others"
Shadi: Is there anything regarding integrated descriptions?
Adina: 2.3.3 AAA Scene 2. I would suggest you start showing it from the beginning, either animation is turned off or doesn't last more than 3 seconds. If it animates a bit, this may not cause problems, the issue is if it moves when she does not want to
Shadi: If we show a particular type of animation here, could that be taken as "This is the motion that we should not be doing"?
Adina: It will depend on the audio. If we show like a star moving or something, that wouldn't be too specific and would help get the general idea
… ... You might say something different than scrolling
Shadi: Thanks for all these comments. The more perspectives we have, the better the resource will be.
Shadi: Any questions or thoughts?
<shadi> https://
<shawn> retweets welcome -
Daniel: Expand the CC acronym?
Brent: This is in the visuals
Shadi: Will do anyway
Shawn: There are two tweets about integrated descriptions, may be people want to retweet
Shadi: If you have further questions, feel free to reach out to me or to put them in GitHub
… While you are reviewing some scripts, I will be working on others
Adina: I have a meeting at 10 am Eastern
… I will try to move it for Fridays, but not sure
Shawn: Would others want to draft scripts?
… It is hard work to put something and then have it reviewed by the group, but this is a very constructive approach and process, so don't be afraid
… The biggest issue is the amount of work it takes. If some could take some of these scripts up, that would really help get these videos done.
Jade: I am happy to take one of these
Shadi: I will send an email explaining what I will be working on, so be quick to pick up some other SCs different from these four and try to write something
Estella: Maybe not myself, but I have a project where they might be somebody willing to get involved.
Estella: Perspectives and other videos have issues with very fast subtitles and very long lines in them. We in Europe have criteria around characters per second and per line
Shawn: We have not had feedback, we would welcome authors to fix them.
<haltersweb> I have to leave for my 10:00am meeting. Ciao!!
Shawn: There is going to be a Cataln translation. Would they fix these issues?
Estella: Will follow-up with you Shawn.
Shadi: We may need to pay more attention to captions for these videos.
Shawn: Maybe we do need to say more
Estella: There is main guidance and then there are specifics based on country mainly
… Similarly, this applies to audio descriptions, subtitles, and others
<Daniel> s/shawn:/Shawn:/
<Daniel> s/cataln/catalan/
<Daniel> s|s/cataln/catalan/||