Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference

04 Mar 2021


JustineP, Fazio, Jennie, Rain, Albert, LisaSeemanKest_, Rachael, stevelee, krisannekinney, Roy
John k
Jennie, Rachael


<LisaSeemanKest_> agenda

<LisaSeemanKest_> agenda

<Jennie> scribe: Jennie

<LisaSeemanKest_> scribe: Jennie

Lisa: The most urgent bits are starting the CFC process in the next week.
... Once we have done what is necessary for that, we can slow down.

updates and do we want to edit doc now?

Lisa: Roy - thank you, has put in a lot of working taking the information from the Google Docs and added those in
... We are working on the last checks and issues
... We still have left some consistency checks, like pattern names - did we change it each time it appears?
... Installing icons in the main document is a bit of a challenge
... If people can review over the weekend, and look for editorial bits
... use this version

<LisaSeemanKest_> https://raw.githack.com/w3c/coga/consistency_checks/content-usable/index.html

Lisa: I will send it to the list as well.
... We think all the editorial stuff will be done still.
... I think it is ready for review, bearing in mind what still needs to be done.

Rachael: How would you like people to send changes and comments?

Lisa: I think emails to the list
... If people want to copy it into a Word document, they can
... If people want us to put it into a Google doc, we can

<Rachael> +1 to fresh sets of eyes

Lisa: If people have the chance to read it over might be good to print it

Rain: I am curious if pull requests right into the document would be useful as well or better to work outside of the document.

Lisa: I don't know if it will cause challenges - Roy?

Roy: I think it is ok to create a branch to make a pull request. After that, I would have to resolve the conflicts

<LisaSeemanKest_> https://raw.githack.com/w3c/coga/consistency_checks/content-usable/index.html

Lisa: A branch would have to be off of the branch we are working on
... I don't think the conflicts will be bad

<stevelee> link to branch - https://github.com/w3c/coga/blob/consistency_checks/content-usable/design.html

Lisa: pattern names, user needs, icons - that is what we are doing now

<LisaSeemanKest_> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/wiki/PlanningPage

Lisa: We have postponed the images, which is fine
... Justine - we are looking at a full icon set
... We tried inserting the icons inline

Roy: Michael and I replied to your email today
... I will look into the format for icons

Lisa: OK, great
... Justine - the plus and the tick are all in one gif, and they need to be separate

Justine: That should be easy. I will make the request today.

<LisaSeemanKest_> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/wiki/PlanningPage#

Lisa: Roy - you still have some actions in the planning page
... I made a list of you - an additional list

<LisaSeemanKest_> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1l5xiuYG2IYBP7vgS5FSzOPJ1NtJdPRSckpY6tt3n9IE/edit#

Lisa: It is the icons, and a few other items where we need you to help

Roy: Links, glossary terms - are linked to other terms

Lisa: That means the link to the W3C consistent
... We have the glossary section, but there is some things where we want to use a word that is defined in the glossary that it automatically inserts

Roy: Michael is working on those tasks
... He tried to work with the W3C glossary. I will confirm with Michael about this
... For the CFC - we got an objection

Lisa: We decided to have one sentence and each thing in the summary

Roy: ok

Lisa: User needs - a link to the user needs design patterns, the design patterns section
... The link to the table, the scenario mappings, the user testing

Roy: OK I will update that

Lisa: The next thing was to review the broken links

Roy: I will do this before publication - this is the last thing

Lisa: Thank you
... Another one is the TOC changes

<Rachael> With regards to hte appendix objection, we also added the following sentence to the introduction to address it "Mappings of objectives, user stories, patterns and personas are available in Appendix A. This provides a way to understand how to address the objective and why it is important. Some people may prefer to start with Appendix A."

<LisaSeemanKest_> We decided on Previous Steps (User Story) and Make Each Step Clear (Pattern) see https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-cognitive-a11y-tf/2021Feb/0106.html

Lisa: Roy - can you touch base with Rachael?
... We have been in the IRC coga plan
... In the actions it also talks about hanging indents but I think you have done that

Rachael: I think that was code Michael will give you to fix

Roy: I will check with Michael

Lisa: I think the user stories for appendix A are done
... the others are done
... I will just add the table into the Google Doc

Roy: Ok

Lisa: Thank you Roy!
... When will you have time for this?

Roy: tomorrow my time, depending on how long they take to do

<Fazio> \yay

Lisa: Rachael, I think you are on top of your actions I think
... proposed action items and changes further down the page

<LisaSeemanKest_> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/wiki/PlanningPage

Lisa: This is where we ask people to list issues they have
... A lot of them have been addressed
... Some were from Steve and we have agreed on what to do
... Some had no names
... If people put anything there - can you check to be sure we have handled them?
... If you can get back to us as soon as possible, that would be great.

<LisaSeemanKest_> next item

Lisa: We made a change to the summary
... The summary was like a crib sheet for some people

<LisaSeemanKest_> https://raw.githack.com/w3c/coga/consistency_checks/content-usable/index.html#summary

Lisa: It was not completely in line with the document
... It is now split into 2 items
... 1 we called them back in so it is more like the document
... as a summary that makes more sense
... We pulled them together and left some sentences as bold.
... we added "Use clear content (text, images and media)" so the text is clearer

Rain: For that particular one, I think it changes the meaning, at least what I understood
... The 1st time I read it as providing different ways to represent content to help people understand
... The icon represents the content of 3

<Fazio> +1

Rain: With this edit, it is good and important, but it removes the sense of meaning of having alternate ways of understanding ocntent

Lisa: This was support ways to understand content, which is part of objective 7
... We had make it easy to get human help there
... The issue was that it wasn't consistent with the document
... We can put it back, if it helps
... We went through a whole story. We had them together, separated them out, put them back together again

Rain: thank you for the explanation - that makes perfect sense
... It might just be that the icon is no longer a good representation

+1 (as Jennie_

Lisa: We had a grid that was a 3 by 3 squares
... That was for use clear content (but it had different text)

<JustineP> If its helpful, this document has a history of the icons/iterations: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aRoYev1aAIHhIq37Itt96ueBwLh5zXMUeJBYxL0MCkQ/edit

Lisa: We changed that bold bit because we wanted it to map to the document for consistency
... Do we like the new structure? It might not be the same wording, but it is an easy read version
... Then make it easier to get human help and support different ways to understand content under provide help and support
... This maps to the document
... Then people can see the correlation easier
... Are we happy with that structure?

<LisaSeemanKest_> stucture - are we happy

<LisaSeemanKest_> +1

<Fazio> +1

<Rain> +1

<JustineP> +1


<Albert> 0

<Roy> +1

<Rachael> +1

<krisannekinney> +1

Lisa: The other question - the icon next to Use clear content

Steve: many are familiar with the Googe Suite waffle - 3 by 3 grid

<LisaSeemanKest_> https://docs.google.com/document/d/11MvYiuuCLb03tlg6aE_pXqE3WxA8M2eCcs75L5s9ZpI/edit

<Rain> I can volunteer to take up an action to try to come up with a new icon concept for this one

Lisa: I think it looks like a stamp

Justine shares the history: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aRoYev1aAIHhIq37Itt96ueBwLh5zXMUeJBYxL0MCkQ/edit

<Rain> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aRoYev1aAIHhIq37Itt96ueBwLh5zXMUeJBYxL0MCkQ/edit

<JustineP> Yes, that's it Rain thx

(group discusses the icons next to #3)

Lisa: put in which you like best: the revised, the 1st draft, the original
... stamp is 1st draft, the original icon is 3 sets of 3

Rachael: I think we approved this - there is a note saying we approved the one with the 2 little dots

Lisa: OK
... Does anyone have a problem with the 2 dots version?

<Fazio> no pob

Lisa: Since this is approved, I think we will move on
... I also need the memory one as well

<Rain> I will send those now

<Fazio> no prob

email on section 5 (user testing ) including replaving the word easy - https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-cognitive-a11y-tf/2021Mar/0008.html

Lisa: We did this one on the list, and got some responses
... Last week we discussed changing section 5
... We agreed to add some sentences to make EO a bit happier
... I added a section name

(reads from link)

scribe: The other was changing the heading for the introduction to this section
... And change the sentence "As a short overview, usability can be measured > based on efficacy, efficiency and satisfaction."
... to "One approach to usability is to measure efficacy, efficiency and > satisfaction for key tasks."
... We have 3 yeses on the list. Any objections?

<LisaSeemanKest_> +1

<Rain> +1

<JustineP> +1

Lisa: You still have another day. Please send an email if you have concerns
... We said we would replace "easy" with "achievable" - it does slightly change the meaning
... I added "even for small groups on a low budget."

<Rachael> +1 to the changes.

<Fazio> +1

<LisaSeemanKest_> +1

<Rain> +1


<JustineP> +1 seems to address the concern that was expressed

<krisannekinney> +1

<Albert> 0

Lisa: If you have a better wording suggestion, please share to the list

heading changes https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-cognitive-a11y-tf/2021Mar/0005.html

Lisa: There was also an email on small heading changes.
... We did get yeses
... One is that the summary used to say "Plain Language Summary"
... We decided to use "Summary (Easy to Understand Language)"

<LisaSeemanKest_> =1

<LisaSeemanKest_> +1

<Rain> +1


<JustineP> +1

<krisannekinney> +1

Lisa: Any objections? and again, you have until Friday
... The next heading: we merged to sections (policy and business considerations)
... We changed the name, but we didn't agree on a name

<LisaSeemanKest_> Considerations for Different Contexts and Policies

<LisaSeemanKest_> +1

<Rain> +1

<JustineP> +1

<Rachael> +1


Lisa: Any objections?

<krisannekinney> +1

icons update

Lisa: We had a conversation about the icons

Rachael: We are closing these out on Friday. Once they are integrated, I will send a draft response to EO referencing these changes
... I have to send it to COGA first
... Friday - Monday change, so we can get the email out on Tuesday
... Just the response

Lisa: Rachael has done a fantastic job managing this enormous list


<JustineP> +1 to that!

Persona and gender (Rachael)

Lisa: Did you cover this last week?
... I think this also got sent to the list

Rachael: We got a lot of feedback on the list
... What we have now is much more readable

<JustineP> We did not get to it last week

Rachael: We might ask people to read through the personas in detail when they do their review

Lisa: The idea was: there was a non-binary profile
... We want to be inclusive, and make sure that people that have not heard of this can understand it

<LisaSeemanKest_> https://raw.githack.com/w3c/coga/consistency_checks/content-usable/index.html#tal-a-student-who-has-dyslexia-and-impaired-eye-hand-coordination

<Rachael> Add (she/her/hers), (they/them/theirs), (he/him/his)

Rachael: Someone suggested we put the pronouns after the profile name

<Fazio> seems to be the current trend

Rachael: As a way to help clarify

+1 this is how we document information

David F: Yes, this appears to be how information is being shared in social media and other places

Lisa: For those that don't live in the United States and Canadians, I have not seen it used elsewhere

<Fazio> disabilityIN also

Lisa: I know what it is, but others may not

David F: I would agree it is Western European and North American

scribe: There is an organization heavily involved with the LGBTQ group
... It is widely accepted within corporate America, but also European companies
... It has become the trend

Lisa: Michael and Roy - does the W3C have a policy on this?

Roy: I'm not sure. Maybe I should confirm with my colleague

<LisaSeemanKest_> https://raw.githack.com/w3c/coga/consistency_checks/content-usable/index.html#tal-a-student-who-has-dyslexia-and-impaired-eye-hand-coordination

Lisa: Can you send an email with this link
... We need to close whether we do this
... Do you need me to share an email?

Roy: that would be great

David F: We could put a simple sentence at the beginning of the profile, like "I prefer to be referred to as ..."

scribe: My preference is to be referred to as...

Lisa: It adds bulk, and may confuse some people that have no idea about these issues, but I think it is a good direction.
... Straw poll - shall we find out if there is a W3C policy?


<Fazio> qI think we will anger people if we don't address it at all

<LisaSeemanKest_> davids sugestionof (i like to be refered to as She

<LisaSeemanKest_> mild -1 - perefer asking w3c

*I'm confused about how you would like us to respond

<JustineP> -.05 it would be good to know what the W3C policy is regardless

Jennie: I would prefer to wait to vote until I know the W3C policy because I need more information about the international perspective.
... I am only familiar with what happens within my state

Lisa: Proposal - write to the W3C, then we close it on the list

<LisaSeemanKest_> ok if we write to w3c and close it in the list, giving 48 hours to repond

<LisaSeemanKest_> +1

<Fazio> +1

<Roy> +1

<JustineP> +1

<Albert> +1

<krisannekinney> +1

<Rain> +1

<Rachael> +1

0 only because of the timeframe

Rachael: We could include content on this as part of the CFC to COGA

David F: which list?

Lisa: Our internal list

David F: OK, I have no objection

Lisa: And when we go to AG

<Rachael> and APA

Rachael: I think we call out that we have diversified the personas - it is a pretty big change

<LisaSeemanKest_> jenni is ok with that!!

reminder clocks change

Lisa: a reminder. Some people's clocks change, but not others
... We are tied to Boston time

*Some of us wait to hear the news because we cannot remember...

Rachael: It is on the 14th

<Rain> March 14

Lisa: I will call out the time in the next 2 week's information about the calls
... I will assume that Roy is on top of this

<Fazio> lol

*Rachael - I have to drop - can you take over scribing? My apologies

<Fazio> mental health!!!!!

thank you Rachael

<Rachael> scribe: Rachael

Lisa: Goes over the 3 year plans. We've done year 1 (design guide and glossary).
... personas. We've done all that. That is fantastic
... Now we want to revisit what we are doing as our priority for year 2.

I've added things people have brought up. More personas, EO, APA reviewing specifications. If people want to add things.

<Rain> I like the list but wouldn't mind doing some formatting to make it easier

Fazio: We started mental health.

Rachael: Didn't publish but need to do a lot of work on it.

Lisa: Need to step back more and start with research. Maybe recruit more people.
... maybe subgroup.
... maybe a call for different expertise in different areas of mental health. We want to tackle it but may want to take a real step back to figure out scope, etc.

+1 to that. :)

Lisa: Certainly one of the topics. Please think about it and we are hoping Sunday/Monday to finish editing. If people can start reviewing it.
... Please check the acknowledgments. How you are represented. If others you worked with that are not represented, etc.

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

[End of minutes]

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.200 (CVS log)
$Date: 2021/03/04 16:05:40 $

Scribe.perl diagnostic output

[Delete this section before finalizing the minutes.]
This is scribe.perl Revision VERSION of 2020-12-31
Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: Irssi_ISO8601_Log_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Default Present: JustineP, Fazio, Jennie, Rain, Albert, LisaSeemanKest_, Rachael, stevelee, krisannekinney, Roy
Present: JustineP, Fazio, Jennie, Rain, Albert, LisaSeemanKest_, Rachael, stevelee, krisannekinney, Roy
Regrets: John k
Found Scribe: Jennie
Found Scribe: Jennie
Inferring ScribeNick: Jennie
Found Scribe: Rachael
Inferring ScribeNick: Rachael
Scribes: Jennie, Rachael
ScribeNicks: Jennie, Rachael

WARNING: No meeting chair found!
You should specify the meeting chair like this:
<dbooth> Chair: dbooth

Found Date: 04 Mar 2021
People with action items: 

WARNING: IRC log location not specified!  (You can ignore this 
warning if you do not want the generated minutes to contain 
a link to the original IRC log.)

[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]