Silver Task Force & Community Group

26 February 2021


AngelaAccessForAll, CharlesHall, ChrisLoiselle, Chuck, Fazio, Francis_Storr, jeanne, Jemma, jennifer_strickland, JF, KimD, Laura_Carlson, Lauriat, Rachael, sajkaj, Wilco
Bruce, Sarah, Todd
jeanne, Shawn

Meeting minutes

<CharlesHall> multitasking for a few minutes

comments on FPWD close today

<CharlesHall> some of the github issues are coming from my colleagues

js: Notes that today is the last day for FPWD comments, and they're coming in quickly!

<Rachael> Does that include the ones that came in via email?

ca: Notes that Oracle will comment--but someone not involved in W3C otherwise

any updates from subgroups on comment processing?

<Chuck> janina: Question came up yesterday, we talked about the 2 comments we were assigned. We did not get to a resolution on them. We do have next steps for one of htem.

<Chuck> s /htem/them/

<Chuck> janina: Do we have an ETA for when we would like to come to a resolution on them? Should we plan on a week, a month, what is preferred?

<Chuck> jeanne: We are asking that it be two weeks, or ask for an extension.

<Chuck> jeanne: maybe you need more info, or maybe you need to write up a use case.

<Chuck> jeanne: I think it would depend on how much time to write up the use case. Getting more info may be out of your control.

<Chuck> janina: That's what we want for one of them.

<Chuck> janina: The other one we aren't quite ready to have an agreement in the group on how to respond. Still kicking around.

<Chuck> janina: That's our first week.

<Chuck> janina: If we need after next Thursday we'll ask for it next week.

js: Asks whether visual contrast has discussed assigned comments?

ChrisLoiselle: Still processing

js: were any assigned to other groups?

ChrisLoiselle: no

js: Prefer that other folks not add labels

<Chuck> janina: What does green and purple stand for?

js: changing green to purple is OK; green is hand off to subgroup; and purple is process of closing

<ChrisLoiselle> need to step away, be right back.

<JF> "Color is not used as the only visual means of conveying information, indicating an action, prompting a response, or distinguishing a visual element."

<Chuck> janina: yes, I wanted to get the "more than colors" into the minutes.

<Chuck> jeanne: Green is "incoming", purple is "closing"

ch: Available to comment on funct needs/categories, but need to have them assigned

js: Check subgroup wiki for the github link

<jeanne> https://github.com/w3c/silver/labels/section%3A%20Functional%20Need

js: Happy to assign individuals if desired

wilco: Asks about documentation on issue process

js: Yes, on wiki --

<jeanne> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/silver/wiki/Procedure_for_Processing_Comments

how to incorporate WCAG2 AAA success criteria

js: Recalls recent conversations of what constitutes bronze/silver/gold

js: how to handle 2.x AAA SC?

<jeanne> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ofQXzR6KxfQIXGQWwfw3VfkDkIHamyWxk_uCITxe3JQ/

js: Has been handled differently by different groups; so we should start with overview of how has been handled so far

df: Didn't we say we weren't going to be backward compatible?

js: Good question!

js: We're not; but 2.x does have good guidance that we want to bring forward

js: So the question is how to bring the value of AAA into 3

df: Are we also doing AA and A?

js: Recalls migration discussion from some years hence

js: how we handle can vary

<Zakim> JF, you wanted to add ACT Rules format and all of the rules already authored for 2.x

jf: We also said we'd use ACT rules format when possible

<Wilco> +1

jf: believe as testable statements

js: sure, but not directly related to AAA

jf: How many AAA in ACT?

wilco: a few

<Zakim> Lauriat, you wanted to mention that the outline essentially used the A, AA, AAA related guidance essentially goes into notes for writing tests & scoring

sl: re a/aa/aaa -- look at captions

sl: as notes to help people write scoring, testing

sl: to have different tests result in different scores

<jeanne> MIgration Map <- https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aCRXrtmnSSTso-6S_IO9GQ3AKTB4FYt9k92eT_1PWX4/edit

js: Considering these from the bronze/silver/gold construct perspective

<JF> Color contrast @ 4.5:1 = bronze, @ 7:1 = silver?

js: But we've not had a detailed discussion of the AAA's

js: suggest we look first at what we have; then at what we could have

wilco: Noting some orgs have certain key pages that require AAA; so it's not true that AAA is not used

<Lauriat> +1 to Wilco, I do see usage of AAA guidance

<JF> +1 to Wilco

wilco: Also personally not convinced by putting AA at bronze; think we need to help small orgs more

<Fazio> I'm hoping to use maturity modelling for that

js: Asks to have that as a github issue, please

<Zakim> Lauriat, you wanted to bring up a meta comment (of sorts) for the four options in the doc

js: key points are in fpwd

js: visual contrast slightly different ...

js: notes that higher score to closed captions -- a potential approach

js: that would imply raising the minimum to pass

<JF> Chuck words that rhyme with mustard truck.../ Chuck words that rhyme with mustard truck...

<Chuck> janina: Research questions has been delving into the importance of how closely how in sync things are, like captions, in with the other media.

<Chuck> janina: We may want to include that (pick it up) when migrating. May add more computation into the mix.

<Chuck> Jeanne: Is that "higher points"?

<Chuck> janina: yes, it makes a big difference in comprehension. It's achievable in asynch media. A bit more of an issue in real time. Depends on how fast you type.

<Chuck> janina: In Belgium, the news is delayed so the captions can be synced. We have a wiki that's 50% or 60% close to being ready.

<JF> +1 CART transcription is usually around 80%-85% accurate

<Chuck> janina: We never talked about in wcag is the need to have audio and visual synced within some tolerances.

<Fazio> +1

<Chuck> janina: People that may not have disabilities actually become "disabled" if the sync is off enough.

<Chuck> jeanne: When ready to present, could you let Shawn and I know?

<Chuck> janina: Yes. I think it's great to bring sooner.

<Lauriat> +1 to wanting to know more, thank you!

wilco: wonders about changing the scale?

wilco: eg. doing some of the AAA might absolve some AA

js: will need to test when we get more guidelines written

Jemma: asks how aCT will connect for 3.0 and ARIA?

<Rachael> There are a few approaches. If kept in the same scale, then the extra point only occurs if the previous points are reached. Then the passing number is adjusted. The need to pass within each functional need category ensures the outcomes balance. If the AAA is in a different level or test set then the risk is mitigated that way

js: not current topic; but at method level

<Chuck> janina: ...fortunately we have the resolution availble, we can sync to the milisecond. It's "pay more attention content developers".

<Chuck> janina: Time text wg.

<Zakim> JF, you wanted to also note the accuracy concern

jf: want also to note that CART struggles to get much more than 85% accuracy

<Lauriat> +1 to moving beyond AA vs. AAA and getting more well-rounded tests

jf: Notes we don't have a way to measure accuracy and maybe we should

js: fpwd has examples of how we might include AAA mixed in with A/AA and new guidelines; we include critical errors, too

js: notes the other approach as with visual contrast -- treat minimally

js: option 3 would be to include in bronze, but give higher scoring for AAA\

js: 4th option would be to move AAA to a WCAG 3 silver

<Fazio> Kinda feels like we're patting people on the head when it should just be standard

jf: doing better should get better score

jf: reward going above the minimum

<Zakim> Lauriat, you wanted to try rephrasing option 4 to check understanding

sl: all guidance on same level; test results score would determine level

<jeanne> SL: All guidance is on the same level. The test results that would mean that today’s AAA would result in a score at the Silver level (as opposed to the Bronze level)

sl: yes, that was my interpretation

jf: agrees

<Fazio> Triple A across functional needs or ad hoc?

<Zakim> Chuck, you wanted to ask that is not how i interpreted it

ca: heard it a bit different ...

ca: if you meet X you might get higher by also doing y

sl: think it's two different topics; how we designate; then how test results are scored

<JF> Another example: (2.2.2) Pause, Stop, Hide "morphs" to (2.2.4) Interruptions

js: in all cases AAA gives more points -- if that's not clear, we need to make it clear

js: whether or not are critical errors determines whether mandatory or optional

sl: was confused between doing the math vs how we do the migration

js: notes that much COGA has been AAA; so we need to consider how to integrate for equal treatment of disabilities

jema: asks about aCT?

js: Only a few ACT for AAA; so it can't be just ACT

<Zakim> Chuck, you wanted to ask that we need to do the math later, there are many ways to implement "more points"

Melanie: recalls slide deck that AAA would be bonus and not penalize if not accomplished; thought AAA would not be critical errors

js: Unfortunately, some things didn't make it into the fpwd for various process reasons; I remember the question and wanted to get back there; my mistake!

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 127 (Wed Dec 30 17:39:58 2020 UTC).


Succeeded: s/msg/ Chuck words that rhyme with mustard truck.../

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Maybe present: ca, ch, df, jema, js, Melanie, sl