<CharlesHall> note: I am lurking due to a work conflict distraction
<scribe> Scribe: ChrisLoiselle
<CharlesHall> no meeting both tuesday and friday?
Shawn: That is correct. Friday meetings will be revisited around first week of December.
<Rachael> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/silver/decision-policy
<Rachael> Subgroup agreement represents consensus of the subgroup but only consistitutes a proposal to the working group.
Rachael: Under goals section, we have added subgroup agreement text.
<Rachael> Participants who miss meetings are expected to read the minutes and raise objections to any decisions made within a week of the meeting. If participants will be out for more than a week, let the facilitators know so they can take this into account when considering objections.
Procedures talk to participants who miss meetings, and guidelines that participants need to follow
We will bring these to the AG if people are comfortable with this. Any comments?
Please review and respond to CfC with a plus one to move forward if you agree.
Jeanne: Either plus one, or minus one with a reason , to expedite the process. Any objection is handled in a detailed way.
Shawn: Hands off to the conformance presentation team.
Francis: We have been looking at clear words during the conformance review.
When reviewing the escape room site, the word list wasn't detailed to compare against conformance wise. I came across a Github repo on top 10,000 English words.
I made some adjustments and did some retesting off of a fork of that repo.
For results, on the escape room, you end up with 17 less simple words. When reviewing the content against the repo, it drops to 3 less than simple words.
Francis: I can't keep up with the numbers you are providing, can you list those out in IRC?
<sajkaj> Believe American Bar Association also has a page on clear lang
I've been reviewing the simple writer tool and however there is a keyboard trap. I've found a workaround for that.
We have also looked into a stemming library, i.e. happily vs. happy and how that applies to clear language and words.
<Zakim> jeanne, you wanted to talk about why
Jeanne: There had been comments in the clear words , it was not testable. Francis is showcasing it is testable. We are looking to the clear language sub group for more help.
Francis: I believe the simple
reader tool does prove that this is testable and can be scored.
Next step is what kind of words and further review.
... I can send you the Github url if you are interested.
<Francis_Storr> https://github.com/fstrr/xkcd-simplewriter
Janina: We are reviewing our name on our sub group , to be in agreement on what to be called. For now, we are TBD in regard to conformance sub group.
Bruce: I say that we talk to 10 principles once they are completed, rather than 5.
Janina: We have to know what we are calling the main thing in the first public working draft , and then talk to a conformance model.
We will bring back our conversations to this group.
Jeanne: We can wait on principles.
Janina: We can talk to that possibly on December 1st.
<jeanne> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1GyUYTnZp0HIMdsKqCiISCSCvL0su692dnW34P81kbbw/
We are looking on comments for ideas. A second pass will be welcomed for proofreading and wordsmithing.
<Andy> https://www.myndex.com/SAPC/?BG=ffd977&TXT=cf49c9
<Lauriat> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/silver/wiki/Main_Page#Sub_Groups
<bruce_bailey> if you want to comment on the work in progress, please use in-line comments (maybe in brackets) or notes, but please do NOT use the suggest mode.
<Chuck> Chris: Andy, myself and Bruce met Thursday. discussed efforts, readability, fluency through visual contrast of text.
<Chuck> Chris: Andy is on the call, can you talk to the link?
<Chuck> Andy: I have a final version of the tool that I showed a pre-release of a couple of weeks ago, some might remember.
<Chuck> Andy: I can quickly show you.... <screen sharing>
Andy: If you go to the link, you'd see the visual contrast calculator
<Chuck> Andy: If you go to the link I put in IRC, you will see the visual contrast calculator....
<bruce_bailey> or just
<bruce_bailey> https://www.myndex.com/SAPC
Text color and background can be entered.
Font size and weight are generated realtime on the picker.
<ToddLibby> Is this available to share publicly or is this a private project?
The picker and the resulting table display four levels of score. Level 4 to level 1.
There are prohibited values within the resulting table for lower contrast examples.
For readability, size and weight are the leading factors on visual word form area and letter pairs. This leads to full speed fluent reading.
<Zakim> sajkaj, you wanted to ask about non textual contrast, eg. focus indicators
Janina: I think the visual contrast tool is a highlight of our efforts. I had a question on focus indicator and how we could also look at that visual contrast testing.
<Lauriat> +1, it'd need some manual selection of which attribute to test against what, but definitely extremely helpful.
<ToddLibby> I'm unavailable to speak right now due to some remodeling here. Is this contrast checker available to share publicly or is this a private project?
Andy: We have been working on that in the call actually. There are 4 main groups, 1) readability 2) spot reading, i.e. copyright text 3) object recognition or non text, i.e buttons, link focus indicator, etc. 4) ascetics
<Lauriat> Todd: Andy has this in github, so seems public enough: https://github.com/Myndex/SAPC-APCA/
<bruce_bailey> @jeanned AuxTextGadby is just some sample text. Maybe should just be the word "sample"?
<Zakim> Lauriat, you wanted to mention http://crbug.com/1121900 to add this logic behind an experiment in Chrome https://i.imgur.com/ihlLJjB.png
Andy: Next steps are testing around spot reading as well as object recognition.
<ToddLibby> Thank you, Shawn.
Shawn: I added a link to a Chrome bug and how the user agent currently showing contrast and how the development team is fixing the bug as developers work on contrast fixes.
<Jan> *Very impressive, Andy
Andy: There have been a few early adopters that are using the new algorithm. So far, in the wild , the response has been positive on the APCA tool in form of adoption.
<CharlesHall> example of tool that is evaluating both formulas: https://contrast-checker.now.sh
Andy: There is a url link generator on the website as well, as well as lookup table, as well as code legend on what levels are.
Open to next steps on white paper or how to proceed further.
Jake: We've had a conversation a while back, on normal vs. bold. Font generators may differ on what is considered bold, how would that fit in to what you present in the tool.
Andy: That is an issue, there is no standard on fonts and font foundries. Reference fonts for comparison should be used whenever possible.
<bruce_bailey> Issue Andy just mentioned:
<bruce_bailey> https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues/665
<Lauriat> Thanks, Bruce!
Andy: There are samples provided that you can change to different fonts, and how this is represented in contrast scoring.
Looking at Google Chrome, Andy clicks on his tool within APCA contrast for fonts for Barlow, Jost, Montserrat . Displays various contrast levels as examples.
<ToddLibby> Is there a way I could join in on the contrast group?
<Zakim> Lauriat, you wanted to ask for a bug filed on Chrome
<ToddLibby> Thank you, Jeanne
Andy: Talks to how these examples were discovered and how it relates to anti-aliasing.
Jeanne: Any other questions for Andy?
<Andy> https://www.myndex.com/SAPC/?BG=ffd977&TXT=cf49c9
Andy: Places in his link for the tool, new features appear on that link first.
<Andy> https://www.myndex.com/ACPA/
This would be used for silver conformance, https://www.myndex.com/ACPA/
Our main link is https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/silver/wiki/Visual_Contrast_of_Text_Subgroup
<ToddLibby> Thank you, Chris
<Andy> https://www.myndex.com/APCA?
<Andy> https://www.myndex.com/APCA/
Makoto: We don't have an update for this week for Alt text.
MichaelCrabb: For XR, we met last week. We are working on strategy document. We are figuring out scope of what we are doing. When content stops and where user agents begin is the detail we will be looking into further in next couple of weeks.
SarahH: On errors group, we have changed our meeting time. We are meeting on Wednesdays at noon ET .
We have a second meeting time on Fridays, at 11am GMT to allow participants from UK etc.
We are working on error flows and we have moved our work into a Google doc to collect input
<sarahhorton> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Fix0uwC0vODgiKl09lMF77FMdd52u64KG9_-N86r4UE/edit#
SarahH provides link
We are starting at the user experience , i.e. very specific flows and user needs associated with flows. User needs would then be used to build out the guidelines from there. Objective is to break down user needs.
Jeanne: HTML or apps as well?
SarahH: We are looking at HTML and apps as well.
I.e an error on a submit, however there is only an image for the error, rather than text.
We then are going to do a card sort , as part of a user experience design process.
<sarahhorton> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/silver/wiki/Error_Handling#Current
SarahH: adds in link on task force in general.
Feedback is welcome.
Jeanne: Any questions?
Francis: Chrome canary update, am I looking in experiments ?
<bruce_bailey> We launched a new website Friday
Shawn: In dev tools, settings dev tools, tab for experiments.
<bruce_bailey> http://www.access-board.gov
The checkbox is called enable view contrast algorithm.
Shawn: We aren't meeting next week, but meeting December 1st.
This is scribe.perl Revision of Date Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: Irssi_ISO8601_Log_Text_Format (score 1.00) Present: Francis_Storr Chuck Lauriat Makoto sajkaj ToddLibby bruce_bailey JakeAbma sarahhorton mikecrabb Sheri_B-H Shri Wilco Rachael Andy KImD Found Scribe: ChrisLoiselle Inferring ScribeNick: ChrisLoiselle WARNING: No meeting title found! You should specify the meeting title like this: <dbooth> Meeting: Weekly Baking Club Meeting WARNING: No meeting chair found! You should specify the meeting chair like this: <dbooth> Chair: dbooth WARNING: No date found! Assuming today. (Hint: Specify the W3C IRC log URL, and the date will be determined from that.) Or specify the date like this: <dbooth> Date: 12 Sep 2002 People with action items: WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option. WARNING: IRC log location not specified! (You can ignore this warning if you do not want the generated minutes to contain a link to the original IRC log.)[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]
