Meeting minutes
Liisa: I co-chair with Daihei and Cristina
Web of Things and Publishing
Daihei: First presentation, thanks to WoT
… we have Michael McCool, Sebastian and Kaz Ashimura
… in publishing we have to learn about what will happen in future, and especially about W3C
… look at what things are upcoming from W3C, such as WoT
… WoT provides collections to all kinds of smart technologies
… I am going to hand this over to Michael to start the presentation
<ivan> present_ vagner
Michael: Thank you; it's a short presentation
… first, talk about what is IoT and what is WoT
… and how to connect publishing in interesting ways
… What is IoT
… idea of putting devices onto the network
… a plant monitor, drone, health device, etc. on internet and send commands to it
… data collection analysis, plus edge computing
… sensors in environment to control network
… IoT is large; many verticals, many places where IoT is deployed
… al ot of value comes from bridging different verticals; connecting traffic to parking; fire to security systems
… value is not in the device themselves, but in the services you build on top of them
… important to make the services available
… to make these use cases exist
… IoT has narrow silos, targeting specific verticals such as smart home
… figure out how to span silos
… IoT devices often use special protocols for these devices
… payload size might be small
… Goal of WoTs work inside W#C is to support interoperability
… the way we are doing this is taking a descriptive approach
… build your device, and then use WoT description so that others can use it easily
… have a formal description of how device works
… basically a JSON file to talk to device, assuming you have authentication for it
… have to have the right keys to talk to the device
… you could use OAuth and token server to talk to devices
… mention we are experimenting with ease of use
… node red
… way to talk to devices and do stuff
… that would fit well into the publishing environment
… Some use cases
… Publishing is in transition, going from print books to ebooks
… includes text, pictures, formatting like mathmatics
… know these are still open
… what is beyond this
… do you want to embed video, interactive simulations in books
… use book to do things in your environment, as a user interface
… this is where IoT use cases come up
… Let me talk about three use cases that are interesting
… Hybridcast from NHK
… looking to connect TV to home environemnt
… connect IoT devices
… you might say, this is a movie, have mood lighting
… and tells your home environment to set lighting to complement the movie
… or trigger channel changes based on scheduling system
… or control the TV as an IoT device
… novel interface systems; related to accessibility
… a blind person needs a braille reader; or need a haptic interface
… connecting can also include to different input/output devices needed for accessibility
… show you other use cases
… Interactive education
… take a science text book that lets me run simulations, or set up an experiment from the book
… Look at growing plants; understand how water and light affects growing plant
… plug sensor into soil, see how light affects it; a curriculum example
… web things do this, but don't connect to IoT devices
… other things with Hybridcast event
… consider an audio book
… a media experience, or with video
… looking more like a hybridcast
… ebook is a device
… maybe command book to play back
… done in cloud
… media controls
… interesting use cases
… maybe have a discussion
… this slide shows node red with channel devices; maybe combine with weather app
… Example of a science notebook
… embedding math simulations in a book
… imagine this in a web page
… ebooks are based on web engines
… would be helpful for math and science teaching
… I will stop there for discussions
Daihei: thank you, Michael
… I am one of co-chairs of Publishing Business Group
… I am going to talk about...
<ivan> persent+ danielw
Daihei: WoT for Publishing business; Why IoT?
… After Michael's wonderful presentation
… clear that WoT is coming
… back in the early 2010, I followed these platforms and apps
… speakers and all that
… WoT can be a vision of the future of the Web itself
… lifestyles will benefit from WoT
… thanks to WoT globally, device systems, content management opportunities
… likely to contribute to publishing content
… relate to meeting, watching, listening, playing and learning
… value of our existence could be missed out
… provide you with the opportunity to introduce what WoT is, and what it means for Publishing - all types, trade, academic, journal
… Go through slides here
… and leave time for Q&A
… these kinds of technologies are available everywhere and connected to the web
… various IoT platforms (e.g. smart homes, wearables, healthcare) are all coming together
… IoT is middleware platform to interconnect among these different IoT technologies
… on left side you see publishing starting from printing on paper products
… from aesthetic level move to movies
… and combine them into interactive things
… IoT can integrate all of them into one system, or depending upon lifestyle, connect to all
… Provide you with an idea of mine
… multimedia...with multiple interfaces
… presents new business opportunities
… My case example, in audio content file with metadata
… to reproduce
… with speakers in a house or car
… and also display recipes where cooking is taking place in case of a recipe ebook
… based on WoT architecture
… user can make sure of content on a given devices
… go through procedures at any moment of reading experience
… can be applied if web content is available
… can call up @ content
… call up video, XR, video games, to play with video content
… practically, I am trying to introduce idea to collaborate with the WoT team
… to get to know more about
… and to seek opportunities for publishing business interest
… Give you opportunity to discuss here
… and here is link to the WoT Interest Group
Daihei: any questions or ideas?
Cristina: I wanted to add one other point of view
… discussion on product from pub POV
… interesting possibilities on the tool and production POV
… not only the final product you sell on the market
… but also on the internal workflow in the publishing house
… could be better understood
Daihei: wonderful
… Michael, any comment?
Michael: to extent that a publishing house is a manufacturer, yes, it applies
… back to example of a recipe book
… have an IoT scale, instant pot, and configure my devices in my kitchen
… to help me through the recipe; scale displays grams, etc.
… great example of a use case
… a whole industry there developing recipes
… worth talking about what are people doing in real life?
… IoT is all about interacting in the real world
… where do I connect books and real world
… Doing home carpentry; cut wood, my hands are busy
… book is great, but want something to walk me through it because I have gloves on
… more examples of real world examples
Kaz: thank you for this discussion
… in the production phases
… Michael mentioned some discussion with Media & Entertainment IG, there were also discussion on the workflow
… can see production workflow discussions for publishing as well
Michael: where data comes from is important; tooling is important; as with Hybridcast
Kaz: tech in the publishing industry, use Web tech if needed
Daihei: Liisa, please
Liisa: Wondering in this recipe book scenario
… a lot of times the struggle we have as publishers
… is that the content has to be sliced, diced and delivered
… Let's use your example of smart kitchen and scale
… can we actually put data into the books?
Michael: lots of devices from different vendors
… instant pot vendor has its own data
… we are trying to open up the application so you can mix and match
… that is a general IoT problem
… second issue is interoperability
… different vendors have different pressure cooker
… try to solve that too
… have a simple interface
… from content creator POV
… have temperature cited for example
… It will be a long struggle, but that is end goal
… it will take a long time, like with app ecosystem
… takes a while, and suddenly it is here
… you also mentioned payments
… device manufacturers have motivation to open up interface
… to monitize data or access to service
… adding value to content
… more of a selling point to publisher
… not ask customer to pay for, a value add
Liisa: also raise for you
… smart frames and screens
… I have a picture frame, and sends new artwork; art books are another example
Michael: yes, buy an art book and show the art in the picture frame in your home
Daihei: we have two minutes left for this item
… we have three people on queue
Sebastian: I like the idea of the recipes
… I am not an expert; do you have APIs?
… for ebooks, etc.?
Daihei: could you respond, Liisa?
… I am glad the whole discussion is arising; let's come back
… and why don't we extend from there
Jeff: I found this very interesting
… DRM issues
… characterize this
… with digital signage
… batches on devices
… in remote areas, at home; manufacturer can provide their manual as an EPUB and set up device through reading system
… it's DRM and secure
… question about API
… if API provided by publisher, who are manufactuers themselves; we can extend these characteristics to publishing
Charles: I was thinking the opposite, that the environment controls the book
… I was stuff in metric, or Imperial or another language; this is very interesting
Daihei: very good
… Let's keep discussion going
… I am going to introduce WoT IG group link
… to Publishing BG participants
… Let me hand this conversation over to Liisa for the next item
Reading Systems and Content Developers
Liisa: Thank you for joining us today
… we look forward to working on use cases with the WoT team
… next segment is speaking with content developers
… We have Zheng (Jeff) Xu and @
… Help us understand how to prioritize what is next for content to focus on?
Jeff: Kobo is a device manufacturer
… we cover a lot of users
… in terms of narrowing to a focus to reading app itself
… we gather first
… requirements
… user feedback from many different channels
… we have feedback featuring our app as well as our device
… reader can send feedback directly
… we also have a marketing team to connect publisher to end users to collect feedback
… besides those teams
… we have special team to help us work on which requirements we want to prioritize and put these features into the next roadmap
… we also have product developers
… everyone is a reader here
… We have some requirements directly
… sent from our developers
… decide which feature has a lot of users
… a bunch of us like the feature and want to experiment and see if it can fit into the product
… and get feedback from end user
… different approaches to get feedback from end user and inside the company
… there are many steps
… Some times we found
… the thing we wanted to avoid
… when we introduce new features
… it is interesting, but we don't see much feedback onit
… need to have some analysis on it to see if we keep this feature
Daniel_Weck: We implement SDKs
… have different goals
… for Readium Foundation
… we aimed to be a reference implementation
… way we approach dev is different; today we are more pragmatic; we raise funds for development help integrators/vendors
… business perspective, customers, end users drive demand
… collaborative annotations, synchronized sign language
… help create demand and capture market segments
… purely from tech standpoint
… there is a notion of chicken and egg
… standards and supporting implementations
… "user agents" in W3C world
… interop rules set by IDPF for EPUB
… have been lacking clarify
… thinking of performance requirements for nonlinear reading order
… From user perspective
… developers, either alignment with lowest common denominator to ensure broadest target
… or advanced features in publishing silos
… rich intereactive multimediaexperiences
… as implementers, we have to fill gaps for lack of clarity
… and decide what to support for legacy
… practice of existing corpus and arhives to support
… top of my head
… we have had support for @ bindings for a number of years
… digital publishing...relatively easy to update web pages
… as reading system implementors, we have to look at proprietary features
… for example Apple's ibooks...
… @ not standardized
Liisa: thank you
… that is a really great segway
… are there use cases that we can collectively agree upon and advance?
… Things like pop-ups, local storage to fill in; workbooks
… so many things happening; things that have not seen light of day in digital book world
… one of our authors published a great fill-in book
… but we don't have support across reading systems to create an ebook of it
… how do we make advancement collectively
… to get support to make it worth making the books
Jeff: one difficulty for publisher
… would be can this book be played on other devices?
… this is probably one mission
… that we can work on in the CG
… and define a certain amount of reading application to reduce the complexity to publishers of supporting different reading apps
… and collectively
… example of footnotes
… we really want to
… implement something good for user
… but if we receive different types of footnotes from different publishers, we cannot handle each case for the reading app
… I think it would be a really good idea
… even if not just in spec
… make an incubation
… and work with some publishers to make experiments with different reading apps
… look at these features, and then maybe push to specifications
… and maybe create some best practices
Daniel: excellent point
… makes me think about how we can connect the idfferent communities
… with my decade of experience
… these communities operate under different perrogatives
… seen this in different standardization groups
… W3C rec track is time consuming
… some industries need to adapt faster to changes in the market
… we found it difficult to connect with diverse groups with different priorities and philosophies
… someone would join a group for weeks, months, and then they vanish
… so we lose track of the latest developments
… W3C is a good place for this; good culture for collaboration
… but pace of standardization is challenging
… Readium foundation have out own publishing spec
… we don't promote as a standard to distribute content
… but represents the richness of ebook for visual narratives; have support for comics, audio books
… shares commonalities with W3C audio books
… we have to move faster than W3C; but interop is still key
… meet the needs of publishers and end users
… W3C is a good place to incubate these ideas from a diverse group of people
<Zakim> Ralph, you wanted to ask "what is a fill-in book?"
Ralph: This is a fun session, as was the previous one
… Like dreaming about possiblities
… my wife could use this while using a recipe book; it could ask her to confirm that it's OK to send a message to the oven to start preheating oven now
… Educate me, Liisa, you used the term "fill-in" book
… not familiar with that term
Liisa: it's like a journal
… a page of content and suggestion for something to think about; meant for a reader to use it in an adult workbook kind of way
… to write down their thoughts and plans
… it's not a blank book journal which we also publish
… so the book is part content and part content
… has some of the same requirements as a workbook
Kyrce: One of challenges we have found implementing new reading systems or features
… is producing them at scale
… dealing with a huge volume
… so many specs requires a significant amount of hand tooling
… or very bespoke style of implementation
… is there anything you have considered; how do we create a thousand of them
Daniel: historically, as a software engineer, I have not been involved in content creation
… but am involved in implementing strategies to ingest different types of content
… sophisticated fixed layout epubs with interactions, local storage
… store user state in memory
… something that is non standardized
… hard to implement
… my take is that the alignment with the open web platform OWP, is the right way to go
… reading systems have been based on web technologies...to enable Javascript
… what is lacking
… some aspects that make them unique
… to regular web pages, such as reading order; standboxing
… publishing on the web is different than publishing in reading systems
… have to look at the active communities
… active projects continue to evolve
… trying to participate in this alignment with the web
… we have a Readium reading project; build SDKs for the web
… we acknowledge that a lot of content we have for testing
… is either representative of lowest common denominator, or come from small @ that are hard to scale
… content consistently across multiple platforms is challenging
Jeff: similar content
… large scope
… it is really interesting
… a long-term requirement from the very begininng
… when Kobo started to do this reading system
… one example
… in Japan
… EBPAJ has created template for the content
… publishers can create similar digital content for a certain type of book; provide a template
… not applied any more
… we still receive the...content base on same tablet
… manifest is big thing
… need to consider
… I hope driven by some company or CG
… try to create a sample book; here is a template
… for education book; for other segments
… when I think about a book, it is a web site
… but for web site, they grab a template
… move into context
… here is my web site; some use WordPress
… very popular platform; digital publishing could use something similar
… provide templates
… can get a lot of publishers to use templates, and maintain template to follow the web browser
… that is doable
… how can we make this approach move forwar
d
… for those having trouble there
<Zakim> Ralph, you wanted to ask Daniel if he considers it a bug or a feature that reading systems don't yet fully support everything that works on the web
Ralph: Thanks Jeff and Daniel
… as reading system developers
… you commented that some of what works on web
… does not work in reading systems
… do you consider that a feature or a bug
… where is the trend for reading systems going?
Daniel: I am afraid reading systems won't go away
… for a number of foundational reasons; pagination, fixed layout, reading order
… and things related to packaging, archiving, DRM, etc.
… what will happen is that more and more web publishing will become attractive
… it is lightweight
… ways to justify the archival process
… packaging mechanisms are being developed in W3C
… for publishers on web
… some notion of DRM, copy protection
… for features they need, or sticking to reflowable text
… publishers will likely have a hybrid approach
… interactive plus archival approaches; immutable
… when it comes to encouraging integrators, not so much reading system developers like myself, with SDKs, but commercial retail and distribution
… channels like Apple and @
… encouraging to move to SDKs rather than stick to solutions
… we have to stick to lowest common denominators due to so many versions of devices
… hope this will encourage publishers to take more risks
Liisa: We have to wrap up now
… Handing over to Cristina
… thank you all for your time
Cristina
Cristina: not just reading; have a lot of other features, like annotation and highlight
Education technology and Accessibility
Cristina: third area
… from Pearson we asked for a publishing POV
… what they expect, and what they are doing
Kyrce: [shares screen]
… I've worked at Pearson since 2004, intirely in digital delivery
… Pearson is not a trade publisher nor an academic publisher
… Pearson has a lot of other things as well
… as of a year ago we're focusing on a digital-first educational technology platform approach
… we spun off most of our non-education as well as k-12
… we're more likely in our higher-education books to focus on general items
… an academic publisher may have a large group or monographs that are more specific
… Pearson's largest group us US higher education
… this is a B2B model; the students may purchase the book but the instructors prescribe
… the instructors are the ones making the decision to buy
… this is also heavily based on franchises and royalties
… our international group is a growing market and covers everything from primary to higher ed
… we get the most press on our high stakes testing & test centers
… we have some B2C; it's entirely digital and all on-line
… extremely high-growth
… deal a lot with charter schools and home-schoolers
… we deal a lot in high scale
… one of my internal metaphors is that we make an extremely high volume of [low-mid range] automobiles
… .we hope to produce content in a way that is highly-templated
… a lot of the volume is around derivatives; there may be multiple downstream versions of a text
… different states in the US have different curriculum requirements; you may need a different version of the same text for different states
… there's a rich suite of everything we do
… customizability is a big driver
… so we leverage web standards as much as we can
… we have internal semantics specs, based on xml, xhtml, HTML, json
… the point is to regularize and templatize
… so we can produce multiple outputs from the same base
… we leverage SCORM heavily
… it's an education-focused thing created for training; has simple quizzing and quiz reporting with narrative frames that can be created quickly
… there's a lot of vendor support and knowledge around SCORM
… we try to start with and adhere to standards; this helps interoperability
… we have to deliver to a ton of different places
… many LMSs
… we generally use EPUB 3 to deliver to an outside partner or for an outline course to provide accessibility
… a lot of our old content is stored in EPUB 3 and we use it for data transfer between internal platforms
… some our challenges are:
… different accessibility requirements internationally
… e.g. the UK is just now starting to escalate their a11y requirements
… many open questions on what makes good digital-first pedagogy
… the on-line learning experience is very different from the print learning experience
… we don't yet have a good codex for on-line
… I'll stop here due to time
Liisa: tell us more!
Kyrce: [shows an example of a test title]
… this is a primary title; it has multiple text islands and map content
… this is set up in a very directed manner
… one of the issues we run into is that these do need to be separated
… even to the specific location of line breaks
… a young learning learning to read needs the line breaks in certain places; things need to be visible in a prescribed manner
… you may even have pronunciations to hear
… this requires a certain layout piece to it
… another challenge our UK groups are experiencing is a language textbook with different islands of text; they set up ways for instructors to highlight pieces
… and provide the instructor more interactive options
… [another book]
… step-by-step instructions working through a solved problem
… this needs to be accessible; needs to be readable by AT in a way that makes sense
… but also needs to be layed-out in a way that makes sense for a sighted reader
… how can we better mark this so the reading order makes sense?
… these are some of the challenges we're dealing with for FXL
Cristina: in a11y, you note that there are different requirements in different countries
… the EU Accessibility Act has requirements that come into effect in 2025
… every European country should implement this in their national laws by 2022
… everything sold in Europe should comply with the requirements of this Act by 2025
… this means that all organizations should have born-accessible publications
… and all platforms should become accessible by that time
Kyrce: certain of our UK products have been of interest in Canada
… from our readings, what Canada is requesting is in line with the EU Act
… but currently Canada's requirements are not met by the UK products
Cristina: yes; it doesn't make sense for every European country to implement a11y requirements in different ways
Liisa: will there be consistency across Europe or will there be variability?
Cristina: I've been invited to a seminar in Germany; we want to work at a governmental level [to make consisten requirements]
… the W3C specs will be very useful
Liisa: as you can see we have work to do to collaborate more with reading system developers
… collaborate with publishers on behalf of readers to address their priority list
… the conformance work from the new EPUB 3 WG is a needed thing
… and some new best practices
… there's a lot we can think about on how our content might be used on WoT
… lots more discussions to be had on all these fronts
… thank you to all our guests who joined us today
… we'll have another session [in 6.5 hours]
[adjourned]
<liisamk> Date: 13/14 October 2020
<Mizushima> preset+ Tomoaki_Mizushima
Intro
lm: this is the second call
… talk about what WoT is doing
… and discussion with the reading system guys about the future
… also fixed layout, manga, etc.
… going to hand over to Daihei
Web of Things and Publishing
ds: let's get started
… WoT joint meeting for 30 mins
… something actively developed withing W3C
… personally think WoT would be the future of the Web
… a possible middleware platform for IoT purposes
… Michael McCool, co-Chair of the WoT WG
mm: sure
@@@ slides
mm: (The Web of Things)
… outline
… Internet of Things, Web of Things, Publication Use Cases
… bring Web technology to IoT
… Internet of Thing (IoT)
… various types of "Things"
… may or may not associated with gateways
… there are smart devices on the network
… What is the Value of the IoT
… there are a lot of different verticals
… want to connect them with each other
… interoperability is important
… very critical
… also data and value added services to make money
… working on open standards for that purpose
… Problem Application/Platform Silos
… various industry areas
… IoT tend to focus on constraint devices
… multiple silos there
… WoT Goal: Support Interoperability
… openness and interoperability is the key
… simplify usage, simplify data ingestion, bridge silos, and enable "mashups"
… metadata to make "Things" accessible
… Current Work Items
… we're on the 2nd Charter
… Thing Description
… key technology is the Thing Description
… metadata for IoT services, Description on interactions, ...
… Implementation, Tools, Validation...
… Node-RED is a good tool for integration
… Publishing: From Paper Books to E-Books
… a lot of effort to replicate the content
… should include pictures, mathematics, etc.
… e-books on the Web should be interactive
… books are kind of the world in our mind
… really about the use case of the bridge with the real world
… For Discussion: Some Use Cases...
… NHK has been working on Hybridcast
… this is on TV devices
… you can imaging movies on the TV
… connect IoT devices in your house
… also accessibility control
… may allow different kinds of interfaces
… next interactive education
… book itself may speak
… for cooking purposes, for example
… and another example
… eBook as a Thing
… could expose controls or stream visual/audio media to other devices
… ebook as an IoT device
… also thinking about other media like Manga
… connection between video and publishing media would be interesting
… Hybridcast
… Node-RED control for TV apps
… handle Typhoon alert, etc.
… may be flashing lights as well
… Interactive Notebooks Example: JupyterLab
… science note book example
… interactive book
… can be used for simulation
… can be connected with external devices like robots
… let's stop here for discussion
ds: tx
… to me, this is a good opportunity to expose what's happening these days
… e.g., Alexa, AI, ...
… going to influence to IoT
… going to ask Kaz to talk a bit about WoT
… and allow us to discuss in Japanese
scibenick: Daihei
<Daihei> kaz talking about WoT essentials
<liisamk> scribenick Daihei
<Daihei> Publishing content including audiobooks, eBooks, etc. can relate to various kind of IoT devices and opporunties
<Daihei> WoT will make it easier between various IoT slots
ds: how about you, Yoshii-san?
jy: interested in this area
… important for information accessibility
… also transport purposes for connected cars
… safe purposes and providing information on sightseeing, etc.
… but it's difficult to maintain the information updated
… for us publishing companies, it might be difficult to handle it
… there is a dedicated group for connected car discussion
… but how to deal with Manga, etc., is of interest
… I used to work on magazines
… and wondering about deep fake, for example
… how to identify whether it's true or not
… from information accessibility viewpoint, who provides what?
… so this is very important area
ds: tx
Kaz Data security and also privacies have been taken care of but
Not much about the fake info and works, which should be given attention from now on
michael m: ID management and other data administrations have been governed at WoT
Kaz: I would like to see this fake info related matters should be taken into considerations for use cases
<kaz> scibenick: kaz
<kaz> ds: tx
<kaz> ... we're almost out of time for the 30min session
<kaz> ... we're now at the PBG meeting
<kaz> ... but would like to connect you all with the WoT guys
<kaz> ... e.g., WoT IG would be a right place for the collaboration
<kaz> ... smart technology for IoT to be applied to publishing
<kaz> ... we're coming to the end of the session on WoT
<kaz> ... and would like to hand over to Liisa
<kaz> lm: next reading system developer session
Liisa: if we make requests to a reading system, could you make it happen?
Wendy: FXL case, view port is one solution.
In the case of reflowable, image might be cut due to the size of the display
Wendy: Aspect ratio affects the how the content can be displayed
Liisa: What's your dream feature?
Wendy: better text to speech feature
Wendy: presentation dictionary, auto-created content to be reviewed,
Wendy: more immersive experiences for narrated content
Zheng: What publishers want reading system to implement?
Zheng: Suppose we can implement anything we can make happen
Zheng: some digital content are not capable to be presented
Zheng: We want to try out
Zheng: We want to help content creator
Zheng: Create content, edit and make it possible to make a good digital book
Zheng: Some technical limitations always exist
Liisa: My dream is to help authors, but wider reading systems to help content to be precisely displayed
Liisa: One of our authors just made a comment about the book he made it 20 years ago, which is
a great interactive book and unfortunately only one place we can read it
Michael McCool: I would like to see better mathematics of eBooks
Wendy: That's right
Wendy: Webkit, Chromium, and all do not have enough support for MathML
Wendy: I would like to see chemistry mark up language to happen
Wendy: both reading system and engines
<liisamk> Daihei to insert comments from jyoshii re: biggest features
Yoshii: Hope technologies will help the boundaries between people who have disabilities and those of not having disability issues can
read the same kind of materials through developments of digital publishing including WoT
Mizushima: Interested in looking for new perception of eBooks, considering what might become available by using WoT
Wendy: Considering more and more devices available, more people want to read on phones, which is the top reading device
We have to think about ecosystem for new environments that surround us
Mizushima: New experiences from what we do not expect as eBooks displays
Liisa: Yes, lots of new business and eBook reading experiences happening, which is good
Wendy: We are fixed to the existing way of how book contents are to be read, but it might be changed, though the print book content can be preserved
Liisa: Shinya Takami will talk about FXL cases for eBook manga, etc.
Shinya: In Japan, there is a unique situation of eBook business, due to popularity of manga and other content based on FXL
So, many eBooks are made in FXL and they are driving eBook market in Japan
In the meantime, current FXL specs are preventing people from making files easier
I would like to talk about more simplified FXL case in the course of EPUB 3.3. discussion at EPUB WG
Liisa: FXL format is more expensive currently. Is it a big issue of download, delivery, why it is hard?
Shiya: File sizes are not so big, so downloading is not a huge issue.
Shinya: Simultaneous or progressive download availability made available by eBook stores are helping the situation
However, it still causes issues of eBook distribution
Liisa: Delivering another form?
Shinya: Structure is standardized. One single image package is the standardized one
Zheng: Hope we can remove the complexity from reading system point of view
Zheng: Inside HTML, we need to find "This HTML is only images,""Sequences of images,"
Introducing OPF for EPUB
Manga can be distinguishable from other FXL content such as kids books
Liisa: from the reading system point of view, what about the cases of URL links built into the content, and panelized the content as per authors request?
Zheng: Navigating page, wrapping the image only content, we can do them
Zheng: We would like to make recommendations to publishers, but there are limitations on images, etc.
Content creating tools might help but we need such
Current spec and what reading system avoid, we need to work out
Wendy: Accessibility is the biggest concern
Is the content to take advantage of eBooks rather than a print faithful?
Webtoon is something I see interesting, which is not affected by print restrictions
Wendy: Better to think easier for developers, and make better reading system with FXL content
Shinya: Manga or FXL centric content are not good for accessibility
We need to discuss manga and such image based content for accessibility formats
Liisa: Literary content which are now produced into FXL?
Shinya: Due to many complex Japanese characters for reflowable files, they are made manually.
Mostly, companies taking care of such conversion on a manual basis
At the same time, we need to consider backward compatibility, especially for reflowable content
Liisa: Reflowable content conversions?
Shinya: Unfortunately, adobe's technologies support to auto generate (export) In Design content to EPUB automatically.
Thus, it has been difficult
<Ralph> Daihei: the complexity of Japanese text layout, with Ruby etc. makes reflowable EPUB much more difficult
<Ralph> Liisa: we still tweak what comes out of InDesign
<Ralph> ... putting in our own CSS, manipulating fonts and other things to get the output we desire
<Ralph> ... I don't think most US content is as complicated as Japanese content
<Ralph> Daihei: most trade publishers will need to do some tweaking
<Ralph> ... do you use tools to do this tweaking or is it manual?
<Ralph> Liisa: a combination of software PRH has developed, some third-party software, and some manual tweaking
<Ralph> ... we want to mirror print where the design is important to the story
<Ralph> ... if there's a way to make it better for the digital experience we do that
<Ralph> Liisa: thanks for the discussion
<Ralph> ... we've identified some things that the EPUB 3 Working Group should be thinking about
Daihei: We are video recording the entire session, thank you
<Ralph> ... if you have other use cases that we can share with our colleagues in the Web of Things group, we can share those as well