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15:49:24 <liisamk> Meeting: Publishing Business Group TPAC Telecon
15:50:37 <liisamk> Date: 13 October 2020
15:51:09 <liisamk> Chairs: Daihei Shiohama, Cristina Mussinelli, Liisa McCloy-Kelley
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16:02:22 <Karen> scribe: Karen
16:02:24 <ivan> present+
16:02:27 <Mizushima> present+
16:02:31 <Karen> present+
16:02:40 <zhengxu> present+
16:02:53 <Mizushima> present-
16:02:54 <kaz> scribenick: kaz
16:02:56 <Karen> Liisa: I co-chair with Daihei and Cristina
16:02:56 <kaz> present+
16:03:05 <Karen> Daihei: First presentation, thanks to WoT
16:03:05 <Mizushima> present+ Tomoaki_Mizushima
16:03:08 <Avneesh> present+
16:03:29 <Karen> ...we have Michael McCool, Sebastian and Kaz Ashimura
16:03:39 <kaz> s/scribenick: kaz/scribenick: Karen/
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16:03:42 <Karen> ...in publishing we have to learn about what will happen in future, and especially about W3C
16:03:52 <Karen> ...look at what things are upcoming from W3C, such as WoT
16:03:54 <ivan> present+ angela
16:03:54 <ivan> present+ ralph
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16:03:59 <ivan> present+ wolfgang
16:04:01 <Karen> ...WoT provides collections to all kinds of smart technologies
16:04:03 <ivan> present+ yanni
16:04:08 <ivan> present+ hazel
16:04:12 <Karen> ...I am going to hand this over to Michael to start the presentation
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16:04:16 <George> present+
16:04:20 <ivan> present_ vagner
16:04:23 <Karen> Michael: Thank you; it's a short presentation
16:04:27 <ivan> present+ vagner
16:04:30 <CharlesL> present+
16:04:32 <Karen> ...first, talk about what is IoT and what is WoT
16:04:38 <Karen> ...and how to connect publishing in interesting ways
16:04:41 <Karen> ...What is IoT
16:04:42 <ivan> present+ jblair
16:04:48 <Karen> ...idea of putting devices onto the network
16:04:50 <ivan> present+ leslie
16:05:01 <Karen> ...a plant monitor, drone, health device, etc. on internet and send commands to it
16:05:10 <Karen> ...data collection analysis, plus edge computing
16:05:11 <ivan> present+ Guilian_Hetzler
16:05:17 <ivan> present+ charles
16:05:18 <Karen> ...sensors in environment to control network
16:05:23 <ivan> present+ dezell
16:05:30 <Karen> ...IoT is large; many verticals, many places where IoT is deployed
16:05:45 <Daihei> Daihei has joined #pbg
16:05:46 <Karen> ... al ot of value comes from bridging different verticals; connecting traffic to parking; fire to security systems
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16:05:52 <Daihei> present+
16:05:53 <ivan> present+ Michael_McCool
16:05:58 <Karen> ...value is not in the device themselves, but in the services you build on top of them
16:06:05 <Karen> ...important to make the services available
16:06:12 <Karen> ...to make these use cases exist
16:06:30 <Karen> ...IoT has narrow silos, targeting specific verticals such as smart home
16:06:34 <Karen> ...figure out how to span silos
16:06:45 <Karen> ...IoT devices often use special protocols for these devices
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16:06:49 <Karen> ...payload size might be small
16:07:00 <Karen> ...Goal of WoTs work inside W#C is to support interoperability
16:07:09 <Karen> ...the way we are doing this is taking a descriptive approach
16:07:22 <Karen> ...build your device, and then use WoT description so that others can use it easily
16:07:36 <Karen> ...have a formal description of how device works
16:07:46 <Karen> ...basically a JSON file to talk to device, assuming you have authentication for it
16:07:53 <Karen> ...have to have the right keys to talk to the device
16:08:08 <Karen> ...you could use OAuth and token server to talk to devices
16:08:18 <Karen> ...mention we are experimenting with ease of use
16:08:20 <Karen> ...node red
16:08:26 <Karen> ...way to talk to devices and do stuff
16:08:32 <Karen> ...that would fit well into the publishing environment
16:08:35 <Karen> ...Some use cases
16:08:50 <Karen> ...Publishing is in transition, going from print books to ebooks
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16:08:57 <Karen> ...includes text, pictures, formatting like mathmatics
16:09:03 <Karen> ...know these are still open
16:09:06 <Karen> ...what is beyond this
16:09:15 <Karen> ...do you want to embed video, interactive simulations in books
16:09:24 <Karen> ...use book to do things in your environment, as a user interface
16:09:31 <Karen> ...this is where IoT use cases come up
16:09:40 <Karen> ...Let me talk about three use cases that are interesting
16:09:47 <Karen> ...Hybridcast from NHK
16:09:48 <Kyrce> Present+ Kyrce
16:09:57 <Karen> ...looking to connect TV to home environemnt
16:10:00 <Karen> ...connect IoT devices
16:10:08 <Karen> ...you might say, this is a movie, have mood lighting
16:10:08 <ivan> present+ Ana_Duarte
16:10:21 <Karen> ...and tells your home environment to set lighting to complement the movie
16:10:28 <Karen> ...or trigger channel changes based on scheduling system
16:10:35 <Karen> ...or control the TV as an IoT device
16:10:43 <Karen> ...novel interface systems; related to accessibility
16:10:55 <Karen> ...a blind person needs a braille reader; or need a haptic interface
16:11:08 <Karen> ...connecting can also include to different input/output devices needed for accessibility
16:11:12 <Karen> ...show you other use cases
16:11:15 <Karen> ...Interactive education
16:11:28 <Karen> ...take a science text book that lets me run simulations, or set up an experiment from the book
16:11:40 <Karen> ...Look at growing plants; understand how water and light affects growing plant
16:11:54 <Karen> ...plug sensor into soil, see how light affects it; a curriculum example
16:12:02 <Karen> ...web things do this, but don't connect to IoT devices
16:12:09 <Karen> ...other things with Hybridcast event
16:12:13 <Karen> ...consider an audio book
16:12:18 <Karen> ...a media experience, or with video
16:12:25 <Karen> ...looking more like a hybridcast
16:12:30 <Karen> ...ebook is a device
16:12:37 <Karen> ...maybe command book to play back
16:12:40 <Karen> ...done in cloud
16:12:43 <Karen> ...media controls
16:12:46 <Karen> ...interesting use cases
16:12:52 <Karen> ...maybe have a discussion
16:13:10 <Karen> ...this slide shows node red with channel devices; maybe combine with weather app
16:13:16 <Karen> ...Example of a science notebook
16:13:22 <Karen> ...embedding math simulations in a book
16:13:27 <Karen> ...imagine this in a web page
16:13:33 <Karen> ...ebooks are based on web engines
16:13:39 <Karen> ...would be helpful for math and science teaching
16:13:44 <Karen> ...I will stop there for discussions
16:13:50 <Karen> Daihei: thank you, Michael
16:13:58 <Karen> ...I am one of co-chairs of Publishing Business Group
16:14:13 <Karen> ...I am going to talk about...
16:14:16 <ivan> persent+ danielw
16:14:34 <Karen> ...WoT for Publishing business; Why IoT?
16:14:41 <Karen> ...After Michael's wonderful presentation
16:14:45 <Karen> ...clear that WoT is coming
16:15:00 <Karen> ...back in the early 2010, I followed these platforms and apps
16:15:03 <Karen> ...speakers and all that
16:15:15 <Karen> ...WoT can be a vision of the future of the Web itself
16:15:23 <Karen> ...lifestyles will benefit from WoT
16:15:39 <Karen> ...thanks to WoT globally, device systems, content management opportunities
16:15:46 <Karen> ...likely to contribute to publishing content
16:15:56 <Karen> ...relate to meeting, watching, listening, playing and learning
16:16:06 <Karen> ...value of our existence could be missed out
16:16:32 <Karen> ...provide you with the opportunity to introduce what WoT is, and what it means for Publishing - all types, trade, academic, journal
16:16:36 <Karen> ...Go through slides here
16:16:40 <Karen> ...and leave time for Q&A
16:16:51 <Karen> ...these kinds of technologies are available everywhere and connected to the web
16:17:06 <Karen> ...various IoT platforms (e.g. smart homes, wearables, healthcare) are all coming together
16:17:20 <Karen> ...IoT is middleware platform to interconnect among these different IoT technologies
16:17:33 <Karen> ...on left side you see publishing starting from printing on paper products
16:17:34 <Cristina> q+
16:17:40 <Karen> ...from aesthetic level move to movies
16:17:47 <Karen> ...and combine them into interactive things
16:18:04 <Karen> ...IoT can integrate all of them into one system, or depending upon lifestyle, connect to all
16:18:10 <Karen> ...Provide you with an idea of mine
16:18:29 <Karen> ...multimedia...with multiple interfaces
16:18:35 <Karen> ...presents new business opportunities
16:18:46 <Karen> ...My case example, in audio content file with metadata
16:18:49 <Karen> ...to reproduce
16:18:55 <Karen> ...with speakers in a house or car
16:19:06 <Karen> ...and also display recipes where cooking is taking place in case of a recipe ebook
16:19:12 <Karen> ...based on WoT architecture
16:19:20 <Karen> ...user can make sure of content on a given devices
16:19:29 <Karen> ...go through procedures at any moment of reading experience
16:19:35 <Karen> ...can be applied if web content is available
16:19:42 <Karen> ...can call up @ content
16:19:52 <Karen> ...call up video, XR, video games, to play with video content
16:20:03 <Karen> ...practically, I am trying to introduce idea to collaborate with the WoT team
16:20:06 <Karen> ...to get to know more about
16:20:10 <liisamk> q+
16:20:18 <Karen> ...and to seek opportunities for publishing business interest
16:20:26 <Karen> ...Give you opportunity to discuss here
16:20:36 <Karen> ...and here is link to the WoT Interest Group
16:20:57 <Karen> Daihei: any questions or ideas?
16:21:02 <liisamk> ack Cristina
16:21:04 <Karen> Cristina: I wanted to add one other point of view
16:21:14 <Karen> ...discussion on product from pub POV
16:21:24 <Karen> ...interesting possibilities on the tool and production POV
16:21:29 <Karen> ...not only the final product you sell on the market
16:21:38 <Karen> ...but also on the internal workflow in the publishing house
16:21:42 <Karen> ...could be better understood
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16:21:46 <Karen> Daihei: wonderful
16:21:51 <Karen> ...Michael, any comment?
16:22:04 <kaz> q+
16:22:08 <Karen> Michael: to extent that a publishing house is a manufacturer, yes, it applies
16:22:13 <Karen> ...back to example of a recipe book
16:22:25 <Karen> ...have an IoT scale, instant pot, and configure my devices in my kitchen
16:22:35 <Karen> ...to help me through the recipe; scale displays grams, etc.
16:22:39 <Karen> ...great example of a use case
16:22:45 <Karen> ... a whole industry there developing recipes
16:22:48 <ivan> present+ Reinaldo_Ferraz
16:22:54 <Karen> ...worth talking about what are people doing in real life?
16:23:04 <Karen> ...IoT is all about interacting in the real world
16:23:08 <JulieBlair> present+
16:23:11 <Karen> ...where do I connect books and real world
16:23:22 <Karen> ...Doing home carpentry; cut wood, my hands are busy
16:23:38 <Karen> ...book is great, but want something to walk me through it because I have gloves on
16:23:43 <Karen> ...more examples of real world examples
16:23:44 <Karen> ack Kaz
16:23:51 <Karen> Kaz: thank you for this discussion
16:23:55 <Karen> ...in the production phases
16:24:08 <liisamk> ack Kaz
16:24:17 <Karen> ...Michael mentioned some discussion with Media & Entertainment IG, there were also discussion on the workflow
16:24:28 <Karen> ...can see production workflow discussions for publishing as well
16:24:41 <Karen> Michael: where data comes from is important; tooling is important; as with Hybridcast
16:24:54 <Karen> Kaz: tech in the publishing industry, use Web tech if needed
16:24:59 <Karen> Daihei: Liisa, please
16:25:01 <Karen> ack Liisa
16:25:09 <Karen> Liisa: Wondering in this recipe book scenario
16:25:12 <sebastian> q+
16:25:17 <Karen> ...a lot of times the struggle we have as publishers
16:25:30 <Karen> ...is that the content has to be sliced, diced and delivered
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16:25:43 <Karen> ...Let's use your example of smart kitchen and scale
16:25:49 <Karen> ...can we actually put data into the books?
16:26:01 <Karen> Michael: lots of devices from different vendors
16:26:11 <Karen> ...instant pot vendor has its own data
16:26:19 <Karen> ...we are trying to open up the application so you can mix and match
16:26:23 <Karen> ...that is a general IoT problem
16:26:29 <Karen> ...second issue is interoperability
16:26:38 <Karen> ...different vendors have different pressure cooker
16:26:42 <Karen> ...try to solve that too
16:26:46 <Karen> ...have a simple interface
16:26:51 <Karen> ...from content creator POV
16:27:00 <Karen> ...have temperature cited for example
16:27:08 <Karen> ...It will be a long struggle, but that is end goal
16:27:17 <Karen> ...it will take a long time, like with app ecosystem
16:27:25 <Karen> ...takes a while, and suddenly it is here
16:27:30 <Karen> ...you also mentioned payments
16:27:35 <zhengxu> q+
16:27:39 <Karen> ...device manufacturers have motivation to open up interface
16:27:47 <Karen> ...to monitize data or access to service
16:27:48 <CharlesL> q+
16:27:49 <Karen> ...adding value to content
16:27:54 <Karen> ...more of a selling point to publisher
16:28:00 <Karen> ...not ask customer to pay for, a value add
16:28:04 <Karen> Liisa: also raise for you
16:28:09 <Karen> ...smart frames and screens
16:28:21 <Karen> ...I have a picture frame, and sends new artwork; art books are another example
16:28:33 <Karen> Michael: yes, buy an art book and show the art in the picture frame in your home
16:28:36 <zhengxu> q-
16:28:44 <Karen> Daihei: we have two minutes left for this item
16:28:49 <Karen> ...we have three people on queue
16:28:52 <Karen> ack Sebastian
16:28:59 <Karen> Sebastian: I like the idea of the recipes
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16:29:08 <Karen> ... I am not an expect; do you have APIs?
16:29:11 <Karen> ...for ebooks, etc.?
16:29:22 <Karen> Daihei: could you respond, Liisa?
16:29:33 <Karen> ...I am glad the whole discussion is arising; let's come back
16:29:38 <Karen> ...and why don't we extend from there
16:29:49 <Karen> ack Jeff
16:29:55 <Karen> Jeff: I found this very interesting
16:29:59 <Karen> ...DRM issues
16:30:04 <Karen> ...characterize this
16:30:08 <Karen> ...with digital signage
16:30:12 <Karen> ...batches on devices
16:30:29 <Karen> ...in remote areas, at home; manufacturer can provide their manual as an EPUB and set up device through reading system
16:30:32 <Karen> ...it's DRM and secure
16:30:35 <Karen> ...question about API
16:30:43 <kaz> s/expect;/expert;/
16:30:55 <Karen> ...if API provided by publisher, who are manufactuers themselves; we can extend these characteristics to publishing
16:30:58 <Karen> ack Charles
16:31:16 <Karen> Charles: I was thinking the opposite, that the environment controls the book
16:31:27 <Karen> ...I was stuff in metric, or Imperial or another language; this is very interesting
16:31:30 <Karen> Daihei: very good
16:31:36 <Karen> ...Let's keep discussion going
16:31:43 <Karen> ...I am going to introduce WoT IG group link
16:31:49 <Karen> ...to Publishing BG participants
16:32:00 <Karen> ...Let me hand this conversation over to Liisa for the next item
16:32:05 <Karen> Liisa: Thank you for joining us today
16:32:13 <Karen> ...we look forward to working on use cases with the WoT team
16:32:26 <Karen> ...next segment is speaking with content developers
16:32:45 <Karen> ...We have Zheng (Jeff) Xu and @
16:33:00 <Karen> ...Help us understand how to prioritize what is next for content to focus on?
16:33:14 <Karen> Jeff: Kobo is a device manufacturer
16:33:18 <Karen> ...we cover a lot of users
16:33:29 <Karen> ...in terms of narrowing to a focus to reading app itself
16:33:32 <Karen> ...we gather first
16:33:34 <Karen> ...requirements
16:33:41 <Karen> ...user feedback from many different channels
16:33:48 <Karen> ...we have feedback featuring our app as well as our device
16:33:54 <Karen> ...reader can send feedback directly
16:34:09 <Karen> ...we also have a marketing team to connect publisher to end users to collect feedback
16:34:13 <Karen> ...besides those teams
16:34:34 <Karen> ...we have special team to help us work on which requirements we want to prioritize and put these features into the next roadmap
16:34:40 <Karen> ...we also have product developers
16:34:44 <Karen> ...everyone is a reader here
16:34:50 <Karen> ...We have some requirements directly
16:34:56 <Karen> ...sent from our developers
16:35:05 <Karen> ...decide which feature has a lot of users
16:35:18 <Karen> ...a bunch of us like the feature and want to experiment and see if it can fit into the product
16:35:25 <Karen> ...and get feedback from end user
16:35:42 <Karen> ...different approaches to get feedback from end user and inside the company
16:35:46 <Karen> ...there are many steps
16:35:51 <Karen> ...Some times we found
16:35:56 <Karen> ...the thing we wanted to avoid
16:36:02 <Karen> ...when we introduce new features
16:36:11 <Karen> ...it is interesting, but we don't see much feedback onit
16:36:25 <Karen> ...need to have some analysis on it to see if we keep this feature
16:36:51 <Karen> @: We implement SDKs
16:36:54 <Karen> ...have different goals
16:36:59 <Karen> ...for Readium Foundation
16:37:05 <Karen> ...we aimed to be a reference implementation
16:37:30 <Karen> ...way we approach dev is different; today we are more pragmatic; we raise funds for development help integrators/vendors
16:37:39 <Karen> ...business perspective, customers, end users drive demand
16:37:50 <Karen> ...collaborative annotations, synchronized sign language
16:38:00 <Karen> ...help create demand and capture market segments
16:38:04 <Karen> ...purely from tech standpoint
16:38:10 <Karen> ...there is a notion of chicken and egg
16:38:16 <Karen> ...standards and supporting implementations
16:38:22 <Karen> ..."user agents" in W3C world
16:38:27 <Ralph> s/@/Daniel_Weck
16:38:29 <Karen> ...interop rules set by IDPF for EPUB
16:38:33 <Karen> ...have been lacking clarify
16:38:44 <Karen> ...thinking of performance requirements for nonlinear reading order
16:38:55 <Karen> ...From user perspective
16:39:11 <Karen> ...developers, either alignment with lowest common denominator to ensure broadest target
16:39:20 <Karen> ...or advanced features in publishing silos
16:39:30 <Karen> ...rich intereactive multimediaexperiences
16:39:41 <Karen> ...as implementers, we have to fill gaps for lack of clarity
16:39:48 <Karen> ...and decide what to support for legacy
16:40:02 <Karen> ...practice of existing corpus and arhives to support
16:40:08 <Karen> ..top of my head
16:40:19 <Karen> ...we have had support for @ bindings for a number of years
16:40:28 <Karen> ...digital publishing...relatively easy to update web pages
16:40:45 <Karen> ...as reading system implementors, we have to look at proprietary features
16:40:54 <Karen> ...for example Apple's ibooks...
16:40:59 <Karen> ...@ not standardized
16:41:02 <Karen> Liisa: thank you
16:41:08 <Karen> ...that is a really great segway
16:41:17 <Karen> ...are there use cases that we can collectively agree upon and advance?
16:41:29 <Karen> ...Things like pop-ups, local storage to fill in; workbooks
16:41:39 <Karen> ...so many things happening; things that have not seen light of day in digital book world
16:41:47 <Karen> ...one of our authors published a great fill-in book
16:41:57 <Karen> ...but we don't have support across reading systems to create an ebook of it
16:42:04 <Karen> ...how do we make advancement collectively
16:42:11 <Karen> ...to get support to make it worth making the books
16:42:16 <Karen> Jeff: one difficulty for publisher
16:42:27 <Karen> ...would be can this book be played on other devices?
16:42:32 <Karen> ...this is probably one mission
16:42:37 <Karen> ...that we can work on  in the CG
16:42:55 <Karen> ...and define a certain amount of reading application to reduce the complexity to publishers of supporting different reading apps
16:42:58 <Karen> ...and collectively
16:43:05 <Karen> ...example of footnotes
16:43:09 <Karen> ...we really want to
16:43:11 <Kyrce> q+
16:43:16 <Karen> ...implement something good for user
16:43:31 <Karen> ...but if we receive different types of footnotes from different publishers, we cannot handle each case for the reading app
16:43:36 <Karen> ...I think it would be a really good idea
16:43:40 <Karen> ...even if not just in spec
16:43:43 <Karen> ...make an incubation
16:43:53 <Karen> ...and work with some publishers to make experiments with different reading apps
16:44:02 <Karen> ...look at these features, and then maybe push to specifications
16:44:09 <Karen> ...and maybe create some best practices
16:44:14 <Karen> Daniel: excellent point
16:44:26 <Karen> ...makes me think about how we can connect the idfferent communities
16:44:34 <Karen> ...with my decade of experience
16:44:47 <Karen> ...these communities operate under different perrogatives
16:44:54 <Karen> ...seen this in different standardization groups
16:45:01 <Karen> ...W3C rec track is time consuming
16:45:09 <Karen> ...some industries need to adapt faster to changes in the market
16:45:28 <Karen> ...we found it difficult to connect with diverse groups with different priorities and philosophies
16:45:37 <Karen> ...someone would join a group for weeks, months, and then they vanish
16:45:45 <Karen> ...so we lose track of the latest developments
16:45:54 <Karen> ...W3C is a good place for this; good culture for collaboration
16:46:01 <Karen> ...but pace of standardization is challenging
16:46:08 <Karen> ...Readium foundation have out own publishing spec
16:46:19 <Karen> ...we don't promote as a standard to distribute content
16:46:40 <Karen> ...but represents the richness of ebook for visual narratives; have support for comics, audio books
16:46:51 <Karen> ...shares commonalities with W3C audio books
16:47:00 <Karen> ...we have to move faster than W3C; but interop is still key
16:47:07 <Karen> ...meet the needs of publishers and end users