<Chuck> chair: Chuck

<Chuck> agenda order is 5,1,2,3,4

<Chuck_> chair: Chuck_

<scribe> scribe: sajkaj

editor's note for explaining each guideline

Review scoring document and scoring survey

<Chuck_> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1IS_PjglXK7jlFVdYn1RwCyBlDQIlTTp34pw5My7zJtI/edit?usp=sharing

<Chuck_> Survey: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/wcag3_Scoring/

js: Notes meeting during AGWG again this coming Tuesday to discuss!

<CharlesHall> overlap is second half

<Rachael> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1IS_PjglXK7jlFVdYn1RwCyBlDQIlTTp34pw5My7zJtI/edit#

js: sj: Cross group schedule is here: https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Meetings/TPAC_2020

rm: walks through newest scoring examples
... Walks through to show how scoring works
... Notes WBS asks about these

pk: Would it make sense to have a score differential for critical with link vs noncritical with link

rm: Would be hard right now because would require more in outcomes
... expect that kind of subtelty will keep us busy for the next few years

js: suggests we go back and look at this because we may have lost things when we moved some to current outcomes
... we should review

pk: should we ask for feedback on this kind of question?
... 2nd question -- Situations where image meaning is clear from context eg "images of the dress below show three available colors, red, blue and green"

<Fazio_> that should pass

<Fazio_> +1

rm: in the method level -- don't currently recall

<PeterKorn> +100 to that!

rm: these questions give me hope the document is useful! good questions!

wf: useful to have html variant?

rm: will not be Google doc when published

editor's note for explaining each guideline

<jeanne> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YyH_VHcEzeKCK7vsNqRCwApJEsomr7KJliYhj6VAe2s/

<Rachael> Editor's notes in context: https://raw.githack.com/w3c/silver/9_October_2020_edits/guidelines/index.html#captions

js: This is follow to praise for 4.5 note; request to have one for each; why selected, what should people look for, and why we want feedback
... Walks through the Ed Note -- noting it's carried over from 2.1 with nothing new
... Wanted to show good case where would not be 100% but still good support

<Fazio_> +1

pk: suggests small edit -- no need to call out large orgs
... also the word "perfection" suggesting something like "0 failures"

js: Looks at clear word ed note

<Fazio_> Perhaps the maturity model can prevent that

<Chuck_> sajkaj: Technical might be something that people don't think of "technical", like technical language if you are a historian.

<Fazio_> jargon?

<Fazio_> +1

<kirkwood> jargon

sj: suggests "technical" is correct but a bit misleading, every field of knowledge has technical words, aka jargon

wf: seems exceptions should be on outcome

js: ack a number of pleaces it could go, and we may want feedback

rm: thought it was on outcome? No, on guideline ... ...

js: so we'll arbitrarily pick a consistent location and ask for feedback

<Wilco> +1

js: captions ed note -- notes emerging tech so not much about traditional captions here because focus is XR
... thought it a good place to bring in spoons
... miss too many and it becomes a critical error ...
... Also shows how AAA are now included

<jeanne> https://w3c.github.io/silver/guidelines/#visual-contrast-of-text

js: Notes no feedback question in visual contrast and asks whether there are particular questions we want to request feedback on

bb: expecting a good bit because it's a radical approach/change

pk: might be good to make the language more parallel -- "we have changed the name [because] and would like feedback"

js: agrees

Volunteers for sub group for reviews?

js: Notes comment from AGWG Tuesday for subgroup to do reviews -- untiul pub
... most help right now is for consistency and making sure nothing is missing

Volunteers combining and organizing Silver style guide?

js: we have enough that we need people writing new content
... notes it's another short term commitment

<Jan> This is Jan - I will help with the styleguide

Angela volunteered

<Christy> This is Christy O. I will help, if needed.

js: Notes Kim Patch volunteered
... thanks everyone!

Presentation from Maturity Modeling subgroup

<Fazio_> Maturity Model Spreadsheet:https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RlkluAs02trSe5wauDpaD32RYl71xj8v3r-5VIRj2VQ/edit#gid=886640798

<CharlesHall> access restricted

<mikecrabb> same here - restricted

js: Asks for contextualization before details

df: a blueprint for how to get started or to guage where one is
... a documented process not tied to an individual's knowledge, so survives personnel change
... basically it's taking data from testing and working out better ways to act on that data for better a11y outcomes
... turns to ss -- looked at existing models; so figured out our own
... notes several subsheets (bottom)
... would like to focus today on working page -- all else historical
... notes level definitions
... conincides with scoring
... goes from zero with no focus on a11y ...
... with level 3 fully integrated across all units with continuous improvement loops
... explains why the various groups are there

pk: great stuff!
... definitely way beyond wcag
... wonder what the final product is?

df: as a note

<Zakim> jeanne, you wanted to say summarize prototype ideas from 2018

df: don't see anything with implications legally, though

js: recalls earlier Silver conversations about what the various new levels mean; bronze, silver, gold -- the source of wholistic tests in our reqs

df: points out that corresponds to the levels in this model

<Chuck_> sajkaj: I like this David, I'm glad you are thinking of seeing it through to a note. This is best organizational practices. You don't support accessibility by fixing it today and then going away.

<Chuck_> sajkaj: You have the beginnings of communicating it clearly. These levels aren't a graded view of how mature you are, maybe they can function as a path. You don't jump from 0 to 3.

<Chuck_> sajkaj: You will have to work your way building this up over time. Maturity means growing up.

<Chuck_> sajkaj: Is that built into this?

df: have discussed; defs should be not too specific -- more broad helps with that

pk: Asks about Dan Goldstein in this?
... feels like either iaap or dei may be a better home for this because theyre working on being more effective orgs this way

df: Originally not personnel, but the concept has grown

df. Working to coordinate across multiple orgs

df: not sure how well the orgs might do or be ready for this kind of thing

pk: probably should have discussion of whether w3c is the right home for this

wf: +1 to PK and also suggests a CG for this

<kirkwood> +1 to a community group

df: invites participation -- Noon Boston Wednesdays

<Zakim> jeanne, you wanted to say that the scope is beyond web

js: agrees it may be outside the scope
... but people driving the work represent major orgs working in maturity model space
... so good diversity and background for this work

df: notes that every named dimension is named for a11y implication in driving web content

<Chuck_> sajkaj: Two comments. Last point, if you put web based in front of driving it would help set focus. And the group set up for pulling this together...

<Chuck_> sajkaj: ...one way to solve to have a joint publication with somebody.

<Jan> +1 to joint publication

<kirkwood> +1 to a joint publication

<jeanne> https://www.w3.org/2020/10/TPAC/SocialEvent.html

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