IDCG meeting

06 October 2020


annette_g, Barb, Coralie, Dan, hober, Jeff, Judy, Léonie, Tzviya, wendyreid
wseltzer, Rhian

Meeting minutes

Actions review https://‌github.com/‌w3c/‌idcg/‌issues

Leonie: 22 open actions

<tzviya> https://‌github.com/‌w3c/‌idcg/‌issues/‌28

Leonie: I'd like to discuss the issue that suggests some pledge for AC reps to sign to

[Tzviya reads aloud issue #28]


Leonie: Jeff, is there anyone on team we could ask to reach out to

Leonie: have we got any sense of what the fee structure would look like for Africa?

Jeff: we try to reach for fair due
… we have a formula for small companies in lower-income countries
… using world bank
… less than 1k, less then 2k, etc.
… there's already a fee structure
… but has not attracted sufficient interest
… so we're looking at other techniques as well

Dan: I think it would be a mistake to focus only on geographical diversity

Dan: Léonie mentioned Nigeria having a startup culture
… I know people and can talk to them to see whether there are connections there

Barb: I agree it should not be geographic
… I may have connections too

Leonie: agreed and thanks for possible connections
… we might want to put our thinking on how we can enable participation by organization


Create nomination guidance #18

Leonie: aim is to enable more diverse participation
… this has come up in a number of other issues
… what can we do to encourage AC reps to send a more diverse set of participants?
… Dan, any ideas you could share?

Dan: I think the question is how do we encourage AC reps and the orgs they represent create career paths for engineers
… and opening those to engineers for whom participating in W3C might be a good idea

Dan: in a way where companies could go back to their statement in a year or so and see progress

Jeff: Kim told us we need to drive action

Jeff: what would it mean to drive action? start with numbers and targets
… we have about 12K in CGs and several thousands in WGs
… a portion of those are in the US (say 4 to 5K)
… our target would be to get 400 black participants only in the US, and at least 50 in WG
… that's 1/10th
… if you go global, as this is a global problem, the target needs to be bigger
… when you look at the target, you realise that we can't do it at W3C without the involvemet of W3C members
… we need the AC reps on these calls
… it's not just who they nominate
… if we don't make this an imperative in our community, we will never drive the kind of results that Kim talked about
… we'll be more welcoming, sure
… it means that issue 18 is magnified in my mind on its importance

WendyR: I like all of the ideas mentioned so far
… i'd like to put the onus on the AC, but maybe we're not considering how uninvolved AC reps can be with their org
… my AC reps is in a different country and business unit and we never converse
… he doesn't present to our company

Dan: I could say exactly the same thing for mine

WendyR: I'm sure it's the same for many other orgs and that the problem may be bigger is the orgs are big
… if we put too much of the onus on the orgs, that's putting too much work on orgs and AC reps in particular
… they are not necessarily positioned to do that
… it doesn't mean we should not help them do this
… but the AC reps portion should be just a small portion, not the whole plan
… we need to be a little bit more active with companies
… reach out to them

Judy: this came up in previous calls as well
… with regard to racial diversity, W3C should have a statement
… we should build that into our materials
… when we talk at conferences about opportunities
… simple statement, make sure it's part of a consistent message to AC reps
… asking Chairs
… e.g. if you're looking for an editor
… make sure you ask who in your group might be good at it and needs encouragement
… think about diversity when you do that
… somebody suggested a public commitment but let's put people first

Barb: I've been thinking about this for a while, Jeff
… the structure is interesting
… you're the CEO, you have AC reps
… [NFL analogy]
… they had some challenges on black lives matter
… chaos was created because not everyone was on the same page
… The leadership took ownership
… it's great to have our committees
… but in the AC, we'd like them to take the pledge
… we have great Chairs
… in summary:

<wendyreid> +1 to chairs being involved

Barb: this is the beauty of W3C
… it's also the challenge on tackling the problem.
… going back to what Kim said:
… it becomes strategy, a plan
… are there some AC reps who would be willing to say we could do this or that
… the members trying to tell owners what they should or should not do
… instead, we should bring them into the fold as far as trying to figure things out
… it's the challenge of W3C
… but any challenge also opens opportunity

Tzviya: I completely agree with what Barb said
… AC, grass roots approach, but also
… perhaps we can help the AC with presentations
… if people step up and sign a pledge they are willing to help improve W3C

Annette: As an AC rep, it's not too much to ask me to reach out to people in my org
… 2nd point: best thing we can do is try to reach out to some black and find out what prevents them from joining
… so we can remove barriers
… 3rd point: discount in membership, or direct entry in AC meeting, there are ways we could structure things that wouldn't be too much of a hit on our finance
… 4th point: bringing in new membership

Jeff: going back to WendyR's comment on AC reps who are disconnected
… I'm painfully aware of that
… it's a problem across the board
… I'd love to have a problem where W3C together with Members add some diversity commitment
… maybe that will energize AC reps
… I could envision:
… some program, fraction of the AC reps who'd feel obligated to participate
… if the program has as an element that the AC reps needs to have a conversation with their chief diversity officer
… that ultimately helps building the program
… could activate both AC reps, companies.
… lots of leverage
… Also, I'd like to remind us that membership is a contract between W3C and the organizations
… as such, we expect Members to contribute as part of whichever program we can come up with
… I don't want to minimize the problem WendyR brought up

Leonie: to wrap up on this issue
… and for next steps
… please add to https://‌github.com/‌w3c/‌idcg/‌issues/‌18
… my other thought: would it be worth sending email to the AC to ask them to continue this conversation?
… invite their perspective

Judy: It's worth thinking about it as an opportunity for the AC to take action and for W3C to provide specific information/resources/encouragement
… if it's a two-way thing we're not putting the members in a position to be blamed.

Tzviya: I like Judy's suggestion
… I think it's premature
… those active already will happily take it on
… but without a good outline, we're likely to not succeeed in getting more engaged.

Barb: TPAC is a wonderful experience
… that's where this group started
… is there any breakout session or else we could put in place this time?
… I invited my AC rep to a joing session at TPAC, I hope that's ok

Leonie: of course

Barb: why not host a breakout session?
… Jeff articulated very well our goals and vision
… and we could solicit their input to achive these goals and vision

Leonie: +1
… any volunteer to frame this suggestion?

Judy: we have a joint meeting already

Barb: yes, that's a meeting of TPAC, the breakouts are in the week of October 26

Judy: I favour the idea of a breakout session for discussion
… I think different people would show up
… I've gotten feedback to save this week for technical topics, but this topic is important
… I wouldn't want to do it solo, but I'd be happy to offer a session
… and see who turns up

Barb: Judy, if you need a partner in crime

Judy: Thanks!

Jeff: I'm always willing to talk

Leonie: Could you share with the CG in advance for comments?

Judy: will do

joint meeting next week with PWE - agenda ideation

Leonie: any topic people here would like to put on the agenda of the joint PWECG/IDCG meeting next week?

Dan: addition/modification to CEPC that could encourage better and more inclusive env?
… that we could add energy into from the D&I perspective

Judy: traning plan
… for CEPC

Leonie: I think we have a few issues on our GH that overlap with what PWECG is doing
… like guides, languages to use
… I raised one originally for accessibility e.g., "is this OK to say that you're blind?"
… I wonder if there are a couple of issues worth our joint discussions
… Tzviya I'll dig those

Tzviya: maybe we can discuss what other training people are interested in

Leonie: send your further suggestions in the next day or so in e-mail

BLM statement next steps

Leonie: we have strong and clear feedback from Kim
… the Director supported the IDCG recommendation to not publish the BLM statement that was reviewed

Judy: a question that came up after Kim presented: does W3C want to do something that is very specific to BLM or
… do we want to do something broader in some way, or deliberately reflective of W3C's global context?
… there are many ways that conversation went and it wasn't resolved
… we need to figure that out as a group, what w3c wants to focus on
… before we can go back to the statement

Jeff: Kim said a lot and we each internalised differently what she said
… it may make sense to have a session, even with the PWE folks, just to verbalise
… how we internalised and what we got out of what Kim said
… she said ours was a weak statement and that it was not going to cause any change
… I focus on the latter part of this, hence my introduction on actions earlier in this call
… deep thinking is required for what we might achieve
… others might have internalised differently

Dan: what I took away:
… this is an all lives matter statment, she said
… the question on the table for us is do we want W3C to make a BLM statement
… I believe it's important to do so and it sends a strong signal
… but it doesn't obviate us from doing all the important work to help with diversity
… but I do think it would be a fairly constrained piece of work

<annette_g> +++ to Daniel

WendyR: I agree with what Dan was saying
… we should lead with BLM
… Kim said we're in the rare position where we can influence tech
… for the Web standards org to put out a statement

<Judy> +++ to Wendy R

WendyR: and we've put a lot of work already
… we do need help
… I'd love it if we could bring Kim in, or find someone else
… Also, flesh out the other action items

<tzviya> +1 to wendyreid

WendyR: some we could make happen pretty quickly
… I think it would be wrong of us to say all lives matter
… we need to put a stake in the ground

Leonie: I agree
… the challenge is how to help us bring someone to help us to that

<annette_g> +1 for bringing Kim in as a paid consultant if she's willing.

Barb: on the statement, I agree we need to close that out
… but we need a bigger picture that the AC buys into
… making sure there's a connection between vision and what we're trying to accomplish
… Also, the CG is more around discussion/ideas, and WG turns into implmentation
… we do think we've matured enough to move our work to a WG?
… who then has the empowerement to put together documents etc.

Leonie: I think we may be that
… you're right, we have to do as well as talk about these things

<Judy> [JB: Specifically liked these two aspects of what Wendy R said: "W3C is in a position to have significant influence in the tech field"; and, "the tech field has a significant problem with anti-black racism". (Wendy, please fix that if I caught it wrong.)]

Leonie: are there any other ways we could bring expertise quickly and efficiently?

Judy: The W3C community has some black participants
… I'm concerned that they have not felt comfortable joining this group

<Barbara_H> +1

Judy: I've reached out to some to ask
… I want to be sure we don't think there aren't any black people at W3C
… My second point was that Kim may be great to work with
… Ibram Kendi in the Boston area may be a good person too
… let's try to see if Kim is willing to work with us

Dan: we have a chicken-and-egg problem
… about having all white people in this group. We may have more diverse representation from our orgs but they’re not here because they don’t have the background in w3c. What could we do to get around this?

Dan: let's bring people from the web community who are active in racial issues as well
… that are known for being black technologist
… let's try to bring them to our next meeting and ask them
… the feedback we need

[adjourned till our joint PWECG/IDCG meeting next week, and we're back again the following week]

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 123 (Tue Sep 1 21:19:13 2020 UTC).