Silver Task Force & Community Group

18 Aug 2020


jeanne, Todd, Lauriat, CharlesHall, Sheri_B-H, Joshue108, mattg, Francis_Storr, Fazio, sajkaj, Crispy, Rachael, KimD, kirkwood
Shawn, jeanne


<Joshue108> presents+

Draft Silver Timeline review

<scribe> scribe: sajkaj

<Lauriat> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Draft_Silver_Timeline

sl: Timeline for FPWD ...
... Next Monday is deadline for all content

<Lauriat> August 24th All content work drafted, including all tabs on content, goes to plain language editors

<jeanne> August 28th All plain language editing complete

<jeanne> August 31st Silver FPWD goes to review by Silver Taskforce and AG Working Group

sl: We need drafts to go through plain language edit

<jeanne> September 22nd CFC opens on Silver FPWD

<jeanne> October 8th Publish Silver FPWD

<jeanne> November 6th Silver FPWD Public Review Period Ends

<jeanne> November 10th Deep Dive on Silver FPWD Issues

js: Thanks people who helped all day yesterday on testing/scoring draft

Reminder for Survey follow up from the WCAG 3.0 deep dive

<Lauriat> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/2020-08-silvereditorsnotes/

sl: Reminds WBS on last week's deep dive. Please respond!
... Just 3 questions

js: Please do before AGWG telecon at 11AM Boston

Draft Silver Timeline review

Check-in with sub-groups

<Lauriat> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/silver/wiki/Main_Page#Sub_Groups

makato: Will go first -- writing up one method for alt text using new template

<Makoto> [Draft] Using alt attribute on img elements (H37 into Method Template) https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BbSbTmBs8rS3u5cfwL9yAo2bqK1QMxXczYGn2pw3hFg/edit?usp=sharing

makato: draft starts on page 3
... basically, it's a copy of existing content from WCAG 2
... Annotaeed with references so should be possible to see where content came from
... please look at page 5 ... suggestion 1
... we should have an example of this image for clarity
... also want to hear from people on question #4
... also page 6 procedure section -- the OL third bullet
... what about photos, diagrams, etc

<Lauriat> Direct link to the question in the doc: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BbSbTmBs8rS3u5cfwL9yAo2bqK1QMxXczYGn2pw3hFg/edit?disco=AAAAJ3m6MIE

makato: suggesting using wai tutorials

<Makoto> https://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/images/

makato: they introduce 7 types of images
... might benefit from different methods
... suggests this may be more comprehensible and understanable. Feedback?

js: Wow! Also great example of moving content from WCAG 2
... I like the different methods for different types of images


js: Offers some editing for contrast -- taken from heaings
... OK will fix fonts

<Joshue108> JS: I like it a lot

js: Asks people to look at scoring ...
... Because this is new since WCAG 2

makato: This section came from heading methods example

js: Asks how to move forward? Best process?

makato: Suggest taking one of the image types to work up
... Method for image of text and try to write scoring section

js: Asks if possible by Friday?

makato: Yes, though can't be on the call

js: Excellent! We can get it to plain lang and forward to AG

sherie: Notes I'm working on headings updates and would like to coordinate -- but what you have is similar

js: Notes Francis is working on headings method; and we should put our heads together ...

sherie: OK

francis: would be great!

js: Is what Makato has don sufficient for the draft?

sl: Noted questions to resolve ... phps Friday?

sherie: And a few more failure cases we could discuss

js: headings or alt text?

sherie: headings

js: next group ... Visual Contrast

Visual Contrast

<ChrisLoiselle> https://github.com/w3c/silver/projects/3

chris: functional outcomes is updated; are meeting thursday to move forward on inprogress items
... we have test process in place for selecting font chars against background
... font weight and size steps that identify whether within or outside of guidance

js: Not seeing this ??

chris: Andy is moving from rawgit into silver repo; should align this week
... next is reference of tests and procedure
... andy has a link we're incorporating for examples
... both good and bad examples
... can follow up to make sure all is good to go for Friday ...

js: Notes for Michael that Andy has a test tool for this -- currently on http not https and throws errors. Can we move to W3C space?

mc: php -- need to know more. Perhaps a pointer and I will look into

js: Next topic ... XR

cp: Met again Monday looking at BBC demo presentation

<Crispy> https://w3c.github.io/silver/subgroups/xr/captioning/functional-outcomes.html

cp: Looked at 5 functional outcomes there; current relevant techniques

<Crispy> https://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG21/quickref/#captions-prerecorded

cp: We discussed sound denotation -- direction distance etc
... so sound in addition to any actual text from the sound
... to provide users info on sound context
... discussing customizable contextualization
... also discussed metadata for captioning -- but that doesn't currently exist

<Crispy> https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides/closed-captioning-television

<Joshue108> CP: Also context sensitive reflow of captions

cp: we need textual description of sound effects

<Crispy> https://www.w3.org/TR/raur/

cp: a method for each functional outcome
... Hope to get it today

<CharlesHall> the goal is for each functional outcome to have at least one simple method and test for the fpwd

jo: Unsure what to do with method template? Need help

js: Happy to help
... Having different people use it best kind of feedback
... Next topic ... Plain Lang
... Anyone from plain lang?


jk: Happy to support ...

js: Clear lang group taking guidance from COGA-TF's Content Usable doc
... COGA structured differently -- we're reorganizing to get into COGA struct
... that's many more guidelines

<CharlesHall> https://www.w3.org/TR/coga-usable/

js: objectives will be general guideline
... pattenrs will be functional outcomes
... Jan was working on syncing our docs and believe it will be ready Friday

<Fazio> Our content q+

<jeanne> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PiU58yc0mLEwRL-bos_03h5Zql7PNCpi9o43bNUa6gE/edit#heading=h.n4dn1ix27i11

jk: Notes that making complicated information clear isn't easy

js: Lots here to bring to AG
... believe people will be surprised by the volume of functional outcomes
... next topic ... headings

<CharlesHall> a draft of the Coga Content Usable doc was referenced and used in the creation of the Master List of Functional Needs

<jeanne> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Ya8LB2YL0qRHdFEHIQoXG8rfaR8fdUpcO79ceMiGLQs/edit

<CharlesHall> MichaelC: do we want to provide update for Functional Needs?

js: worked on the template by starting with existing content
... it wasn't easy and unsure where our howto's go without yet having guidelines
... worked on method template and then on an example

<jeanne> Template https://docs.google.com/document/d/1KP6A9TmSkhgHvsTxu4FFGC9duzHKU-OBM_tcULC5Mew/

js: notes heading levels don't yet follow our own guidelines -- too many h1's!
... it's a work in progress
... discusses work in progress and cross dependencies on other work ...
... we've increased categories -- need to validate

<Rachael> My computer says I'm not muted so not sure how to fix that

<Rachael> Typing: I'd like to see a subgroup talk about the aggregation

rm: would like to discuss subtelties -- ok for now

js: continues overview ...
... testing tab got most attention yesterday
... unsure yet how wcag 2 will be integrated; it will be integrated though
... procedure for testing and expected results ...
... tell people what they're testing
... wcag assumes page; doesn't work for silver

<CharlesHall> +1 to Rachael on Functional Categories and Functional Needs meeting.

js: scoping matters
... and needs to be clear as impacts scoring
... this will be new

sl: likes scoping out the tests
... it would be good to show wide range of scoping these in fpwd
... from narrow to broad with noninterference

js: suggests we can keep working on this through september
... believes we can add examples at least
... need to identify critical failures per method
... noninterference; errors e.g. submit not in tab order; errors when aggregated that become critical failure en masse
... important esp for coga
... first explain what is important and why; then denote scoring levels
... picked semantic struct to support at
... walks through the xample provided ...

<Lauriat> Direct link to the Headings example: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1KP6A9TmSkhgHvsTxu4FFGC9duzHKU-OBM_tcULC5Mew/edit#heading=h.eyftmriw7ts1

js: notes that different kinds of at that matters, not just screen readers

<CharlesHall> the functional category of Motor is also relevant here for the amount of effort spent if unable to navigate via headings.

sl: q on context of tests and methods

<Rachael> +1 to including motor here

sl: different ways of using html and aria -- e.g. epub may be different

<jeanne> +1 to include an ePub example.

sl: context may be shape of the thing ...
... epub docs provide additional semantic options

js: great to provide an epub example

sl: page may be flat content; headings in a rich app is different
... maybe not important for fpwd; but need to consider in time

js: think soon

<Zakim> Lauriat, you wanted to ask about context of use of technology vs. context of specific technology

js: better we demonstrate beyond web use the better
... will add example

<Lauriat> Scoring: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1KP6A9TmSkhgHvsTxu4FFGC9duzHKU-OBM_tcULC5Mew/edit#heading=h.ncojg7idfxvq

js: reviews scoring
... reminds everyone joint meeting with agwg in half hour; also please respond on wbs

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

[End of minutes]

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version (CVS log)
$Date: 2020/08/18 14:30:49 $

Scribe.perl diagnostic output

[Delete this section before finalizing the minutes.]
This is scribe.perl Revision of Date 
Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: Irssi_ISO8601_Log_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/could/would like to/
Present: jeanne Todd Lauriat CharlesHall Sheri_B-H Joshue108 mattg Francis_Storr Fazio sajkaj Crispy Rachael KimD kirkwood
Found Scribe: sajkaj
Inferring ScribeNick: sajkaj

WARNING: No date found!  Assuming today.  (Hint: Specify
the W3C IRC log URL, and the date will be determined from that.)
Or specify the date like this:
<dbooth> Date: 12 Sep 2002

People with action items: 

WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines.
You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.

WARNING: IRC log location not specified!  (You can ignore this 
warning if you do not want the generated minutes to contain 
a link to the original IRC log.)

[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]