Meeting minutes
<Ralph> previous: 12-June
tzviya: we've been talking about captioning for the webinar
webinar
tzviya: let's look at the
GDoc
… I've talked to potential speakers
<Ralph> ^^Publishing @ W3C Summer Webinar
tzviya: Avneesh was
concerned about too many panelists from North America
… Cristina could speak about groups and goals
… Avneesh talking about a11y
… Wendy representing the WG
… Mateus representing the CG
… we have our speakers set
… we need to coordinate on dates
… we're talking about two time slots: one
America/Europe, one Asia
Bill_Kasdorf:
Bill_Kasdorf:
Bill_Kasdorf: I wanted to
report on progress and lack of progress about captions
… I talked to 3Play first
… their CEO said they'd love to do this, but our live
captioning is auto-captioning
… they have a service that combines auto-captioning
with human refinement
… the human part happens later
… I reached out to Richard Orme
… he thinks highly of them
… but shares skepticism about auto-captioning
… I then reached out to NCam
… The captioning services are from WGBH
… but they said they would be unlikely to contribute
for free
… so what should we do?
… should we pursue live captioning? Can we pay for it?
… I can get back to Richard for referrals to good
captioners
Ralph: Thanks Bill
… I would appreciate some sense from this group
… I asked George about DAISY's general practices
around webinars
… I'd appreciate guidance from them
… does anyone think live captioning is optional?
George: two things
… first, it's essential from an a11y perspective
… and for ESL
… the captioning reinforces the spoken word
… tzviya, you said the captioning is very good, so you
must have it turned on. what do you think?
tzviya: I've looked at the
captioning afterwords
… I've often used it to speed up the absorption of
video
garth: what's the complaint
about auto-captioning? is it the name problem?
… I've never seen google auto-caption get the words
wrong
many: we've seen errors
<Zakim> Ralph, you wanted to followup after everyone else who cares to respond does so
tzviya: there's an issue with jargon; it gets messed up
garth: point taken
Ralph: George couldn't see
us nod that captioning is essential
… this group does say captioning is essential
tzviya: the action item is to follow up with Richard Orme
Ralph: I'll follow up
tzviya: moving back to dates
<tzviya> [1] https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Publishing+community+meeting&iso=20200723T09&p1=43
<tzviya> [2] https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Publishing+community+meeting&iso=20200723T10&p1=43
<tzviya> [3] https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Publishing+community+meeting&iso=20200723T20&p1=43
<tzviya> [4] https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Publishing+community+meeting&iso=20200723T21&p1=43
<tzviya> on 23, 27, or 28 July
tzviya: we'll have to vote
by email
… oh, will have to revise for US Pacific
… if any dates don't work for the speakers we'll have
to change
… I'll do a doodle poll
<Ralph> [those dates are Thursday, Monday, and Tuesday]
tzviya: ivan and karen have
been working on a sign-up form
… we need to work on slides
ivan: I think the best is if
you send out the doodle for speakers
… my preferences don't really count
tzviya: I'll include liisamk
in case cristina can't be a speaker
… I'll be in touch with karen about writing that text,
making it sound exciting
… in the BG we were talking about localized
presentations
… would we translate and add content? Do different
presentations?
ivan: I am not one of the
localizers
… the idea would be to have essentially the same
message everywhere
… a translation of a slide set PLUS anything specific
to the locale
… we should try not to make very different
presentations, because that makes the w3c message more diffuse
… Daihei_, you were saying about the japanese audience
needing something specific
Daihei_: there was something
about epub reflowable for japanese vertical text
… who should I send details to?
tzviya: send it to the list
tzviya: I'll reach out to cristina
Ralph: we have room for a
little flexibility
… the agenda has 30min presentation and 30min qa
… it's plausible there may be topics that are
higher-priority to present and discuss for japan
… if daihei were to feel that detailed discussion of
some of those japanese text layout issues could use some of the qa
time, that's fine
… the first 30min is important info for everyone
tzviya: this is also taken
from Richard Orme... we did a webinar with 30min for questions, and we
prepped some questions in advance to get the questioning going
… Daihei_, if there are concerns about vertical
layout, we can ask that question first, or solicit questions in
advance
Daihei_: what i'm going to
summarize is
… I will have Shinya Takami
… he'll include the more technical issues
… and some locally unique issues we want to overcome
… that will all be covered
ivan: I don't want to muddle
to waters, but one thing came up for dates
… we are at the end of July
… and the end of the EPUB 3 WG charter is on July 31
… so if everything goes well with the vote...
… Ralph is shaking his head
Ralph: [shakes his head]
ivan: rm -rf /Ivan
liisamk: what is the next piece, and how long will it take
Ralph: we don't know how
long it takes
… it depends if the director has to address any tough
questions from the membership
ivan: a week if there are no problems, which would put us mid-august
Ralph: I don't recommend moving the schedule based on w3c member activity
jeff_: I wanted to hear more about what Ivan was saying
ivan: I'm not concerned;
being able to say that we are going to start the EPUB 3 WG would be a
good thing
… we can't say that yet because the vote is ongoing
Avneesh: this is a concern
… the good thing is that the webinar is not only about
WG
<Ralph> +1; not just about the WG
Avneesh: it's about strategy at a high level; we can say that we are working on these things
tzviya: that's a fair point
tzviya: we talked in the BG
meeting about having the slides available publicly
… is there an SC github?
Action: Ralph cause a SC GitHub repo to exist
tzviya: better to keep all the slides in one deck; I'll reach out to the speakers, and we need accessible slides
George: we will need to
provide the slides in advance to the captioner
… that helps them prepare their language in advance
… sending them a powerpoint is best rather than
expecting them to go into GitHub
Avneesh: when we talk about webinar two times, will we present once and then do a recording, or live both times?
tzviya: I thought we'd do it live both times
<liisamk> +1 to live both times
Ralph: I would hope the presenters all be available
tzviya: for Avneesh the time zones are challenging
George: I like pre-recording. Things go smoothly.
tzviya: we talked about
pre-recording for everyone last time, and that got nixed
… let's look at the times again, and then see if
everyone can make it.
<Avneesh> good to go thorugh times first. anywhays everyone has to be present for question and answers
Ralph: having presenters being awake and alert is a good thing
tzviya: we could expand group for qa, have different group for diff time zones
Avneesh: sometimes you have to dress up at odd times because video :)
tzviya: I will follow up with folks about logistics
The CG
tzviya: I expected mateus
could call in from the road
… he and Jeff Xu are co-chairs of CG, and are talking
about kicking off the group
… they want a new charter
… they want to organize around committees
… they know the scope is broad
… there will be lot of flexibility in the structure
… it will be a bit like the strategy funnel
… ralph has talked about combining the CG mailing
lists
… then there will be a kickoff meeting
Ralph: re combo of CGs
… that action item is in limbo on my desk
… we can do a relaunch of the CG
… my delay may be OK
tzviya: it will come at an opportune time
Ralph: I will sync with them
What to advise when an OS doesn't have support for EPUB ?
George: I would assume the
CG would be able to deal with issues like the windows EPUB viewer, and
promote EPUB
… but the tech issues associated with it, would be
fair game for the CG
Ralph: thanks for raising
that, George
… the tech issues are fair game for the CG
… as I read your email, there's a deployment question
… this Q may be to Liisa and Daihei
… is that deployment question, giving assistance to MS
Windows users
… is the BG the place to give advice?
… can the bg take that up?
liisamk: from an awareness
perspective yes
… we can promote... laurent talked about thorium in
the BG
<tzviya> q later
liisamk: I'm not sure what else we could do
Ralph: it could be a FAQ
<Zakim> dauwhe, you wanted to rant
Ralph: could the business group maintain an FAQ?
dauwhe: this is a really
hard question
… this gets to one of the reasons why Publishing@W3C
struggles in general
… we don't have the power to change things
… in CSS it's different; the group participants are
the browser developers
… they can decide to add a feature to their OS
… all we can do is petition others to do things that
we don't have the power to do
… that puts us in a challenging position
… we're aware of this but we are not the decision
makers
<Zakim> tzviya, you wanted to talk about evangelism
tzviya: I was going to say
something similar
… when I read George's note
… this is a shock to people
… just because you write a standard doesn't mean it
gets implemented
… and that's frustrating
… we can learn about how to work on implementations
… and how to petition browsers
… for those who were at the event after the January AB
meeting in NY
… Robin and Leonie talked about how frustrating to
work on standards
… Robin spoke about how it took 8 years to get a
feature in HTML
… we need to speak to the browsers
… HTML5 was no picnic either. The browsers had
evangelists.
… we should talk to MS about what worked and didn't
work in their implementation
… patience is part of the game
… we need to work with the browsers instead of
complaining about it
Daihei_: it's worthwhile to
discuss at PBG
… and talk about implementation
… and do some research about how the industry thinks
about the extension issue
… I can talk to people in Japan about how they see
this
… and about other possibilities
… and I can work with the PBG chairs
liisamk: coming out of
survey result was dismay at the misinformation out there
… and we could help educate people, as we're starting
to do with the guest speakers
… an FAQ could be part of that
… and how do we help our community get traction to do
good things
… like Thorium... we need to get it to a place where
you can search
… not having search is the thing that keeps publishers
from adopting tools
… so we need to educate the community
… but also how to we let people working on tools
understand why their tools aren't be adopted
Ralph: exactly, liisamk
… we have an opportunity to correct some
misunderstandings
… I appreciate dave's rant
… what I was thinking was along the lines of what
liisa said
… we can be frustrated that we don't see the
deployment that we want
… but there are solutions
… if the community doesn't know about thorium
… we have to be careful about being neutral
… but saying "windows users can't read epub" is
factually incorrect
<Zakim> tzviya, you wanted to mention MDN
tzviya: last year, Rachel
Comerford and I were working on MDN documentation for EPUB
… we never finished that up. Could the BG take that
up? We have all the docs and initial feedback
… the SEO is very good
… I'd be willing to help
liisamk: I'd want to see the
details
… it sounded like it was hell on wheels to get off the
ground
… and it was going to be very basic
tzviya: I'll dig up what I have
George: an FAQ sounds like a
good method for solving a problem or future problems
… some of these companies, they're asking me for
boilerplate for what they put on their web page when they host an
epub
… we could get a link to thorium on the microsoft
store and an FAQ for more information
… DAISY would be delighted to provide a link to our
roundup and a11y evaluations
ivan: I'm a regular user of
MDN
… we should have EPUB somehow presented there
… but MDN is different than what we're talking about
<Ralph> [MDN addresses an important, but separate audience than a "So how to I read an EPUB?" FAQ]
Tzviya: I'm hearing that MDN will be great but we have something that needs to be addressed before MDN
Tzviya: I'll follow up with details about the Webinar for presenters and planners
[adjourned]