Silver Task Force & Community Group

19 May 2020


jeanne, Chuck, Joshue, Lauriat, CharlesHall, JakeAbma, Fazio, ChrisLoiselle, michaelcrabb, JF, sajkaj, Detlev, KimD, OmarBonilla, Makoto
Shawn, jeanne


<scribe> scribe:ChrisLoiselle

Updates from subgroups

<jeanne> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/silver/wiki/Main_Page#Sub_Groups

Jeanne: Is there an update on Alt text?

Makoto: There is no update , but I had sent the markdown files last week. I'd like to get feedback from group and confirm we are working in right direction.

Jeanne: You can do that here if you'd like , do you have the file?

<Chuck> Chris: Regards to our sub group, we are meeting, Bruce and I met a couple of times. We are having a hard time connecting with Andy who is working on math, methods and scoring.

<Chuck> Chris: My plan is to work to get all of us within a meeting that can progress that. It's where it was as of February. Bruce and I are looking at the wording in the doc you confirmed for us.

<Chuck> Chris: In terms of computations, we are looking at what Andy wouldn't want in a public view (his personal work), we are looking to confirm that with him.

<Chuck> Chris: We have been meeting, but not enough progress to push to the group.

<Chuck> Jeanne: Let me know if you need help with that.

<Chuck> Jeanne: Judging what you have, from my memory, of what's in there from Feb. I don't think we need more math.

<Chuck> Chris: there's a lot that had been done, but we want to connect with Andy and make sure he is comfortable with what's there to bring to a discussion.

<Chuck> Chris: We want to connect and get that moving.

<Chuck> Chris: We have a meeting scheduled next week, and in between I'm going to try and connect with him.

<Chuck> Detlev: Not sure if this is right time and place to ask...

<Chuck> Detlev: Regarding testing and evaluating. Is it as simple as analyzer or some automated run through the contrast pass, background forground?

<Fazio> Neuroscience contrast work: https://www.brainhq.com/why-brainhq/about-the-brainhq-exercises/drivesharp/steer-clear they also have scientific white papers available to support their use cases

<Chuck> Detlev: Or will it get more complex?

<Chuck> Jeanne: My understanding is that what we will have. What Andy had done in Jan is he had a tool, it gives you a score.

<Chuck> Jeanne: This could be automated but it isn't right now, the score maps on a chart that Bruce developed so you could see if you pass or fail.

<Chuck> Jeanne: what we were talking about back in feb was adding nuance to the pass/fail. Some scores would be better than others.

<Chuck> Jeanne: So you could have score 1-3 or 1-5, rather than just a pass fail. Bruce, is that represented fairly?

<Chuck> Shawn: Bruce sent regrets.

<Chuck> Shawn: But computation includes font sizes and weights. It's our intention to have that.

<Zakim> JF, you wanted to ask about alpha transparencies in that tool

<Chuck> JF: I have not been following contrast issue. Do you know if the tool is supporting alpha transparencies?

<Chuck> Shawn: We hope so.

<Chuck> JF: Don't want to lose that.

<Chuck> Shawn: One of the things we have been talking about is using sample scripting to sample font color, take into account anti-aliasing. It will come up as a part of working through that.

<Makoto> ALTtext_GuidelinesExplainers-Methods_May12_2020.ziphttps://www.dropbox.com/s/cej6axgmga7d2pj/ALTtext_GuidelinesExplainers-Methods_May12_2020.zip?dl=0

<Makoto> https://www.dropbox.com/s/cej6axgmga7d2pj/ALTtext_GuidelinesExplainers-Methods_May12_2020.zip?dl=0

<Lauriat> https://www.dropbox.com/s/cej6axgmga7d2pj/ALTtext_GuidelinesExplainers-Methods_May12_2020.zip?dl=0&file_subpath=%2FALTtext_GuidelinesExplainers-Methods_May12_2020%2Fguidelines_explainers_template_Non-Text+Content.md

<Lauriat> https://www.dropbox.com/s/cej6axgmga7d2pj/ALTtext_GuidelinesExplainers-Methods_May12_2020.zip?dl=0&file_subpath=%2FALTtext_GuidelinesExplainers-Methods_May12_2020%2Fmethods_template-Using+alt+attributes+on+img+elements.md

Makoto: Provided link, if you follow link , the link will open in Dropbox and you can view the markdown markup.

Gap analysis was done in March. Next step would be guideline explainers and method templates.

I took one method and wrote in markdown.Once I confirm I'm working in correct direction, I will talk to team members and restart our collaboration.

Jeanne: It looks like you are doing the right thing.

Moving on to methods would be great, as well as the tests.

Jeanne: We are in process of changing some things, feel reach out to me if you need to me. Makoto: Jennifer left the alt text team. If anyone wants to work with alt text work, we welcome you.
... Alt text reaches a lot of users, feel free to contribute if you can.

CharlesH: I can contribute when I can.

Makoto: Email is fine for correspondence.

Shawn: Clear language is next. Jeanne: Jan on the call?

<jeanne> https://docs.google.com/document/d/18h8LU8h42GJ-c63JV2URFYtCO1ewhrlz0E2QW0IWMRk/edit#heading=h.1sif632mkkeb

Jeanne: I can talk to clear language. We created a new document. We started with functional outcomes.
... Shares link to Clear Language Functional Outcomes google document.

<Fazio> "simple words" I see as problematic

part 1B talks to functional outcomes. Clear Content, Clear Structure , Clear Instructions . We changed examples to active voice vs. passive voice.

CharlesH: On functional outcomes, I have a question on the phrase. Functional outcome of user completing a task vs. another use of the phrase. I.e. the outcome of the process vs. the outcome of the user. Do we have a different phrase of outcomes of task completion?

<Fazio> +1

<Lauriat> +1

Jeanne: We said that as a solution to the issue identified in the AGWG survey, there was not a normative statement that could be measured to see whether or not someone could pass the guideline. The solution was to make statements on how would you know something would pass the guideline?

Jeanne, to Charles, I think we need to work on that .

<Zakim> Lauriat, you wanted to ask about grouping, writing structure vs. "content" structure

Shawn: I wanted to talk about grouping.

<Lauriat> SC 2.4.6 Headings and Labels, SC 3.3.2 Labels or Instructions, SC 3.3.5 Help: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aCRXrtmnSSTso-6S_IO9GQ3AKTB4FYt9k92eT_1PWX4/edit#heading=h.lze929w6yk2c

<Zakim> JF, you wanted to enquire about i18n

I think the instruction can merge into the headings and labels area migration.

Shawn: Is this around clear written structure? Jeanne: Yes. I'll fix that wording.

DavidF: Simple and common words may be open for interpretation. Perhaps putting in a grade level k-12 would be worthwhile. Jeanne: We did not want to talk to grade level. There are other places where we go into simple words vs. not simple words.

<kirkwood> plain language is also I well undertood and defined term

Jeanne: To John K, do you prefer we talk to plain language?

<Lauriat> +1 to referencing already established terminology & definitions

<Fazio> ADA references plain language

JohnK: Yes, I'd recommend that. We might want to modify it slightly, but a great starting point.

<KimD> https://plainlanguage.gov/


Jeanne: Is very specific to US, but we'd also need to address international needs...we'd then need to integrate all of those needs.

DavidF: There is an international effort that talks to this, research can be https://inclusion-international.org/the-sustainable-development-goals-in-plain-language/

<Lauriat> Nice! Thank you, Chris!

Janina: Inferences is what reader does, not what authors do. I think that may worded incorrectly? Avoid implying your meaning may be a better phrase to talk to that issue.

<Fazio> +1 Janina

<CharlesHall> I also still work with Jeff Greer from https://centerforplainlanguage.org/ who is happy to review this guidance in its final form, but cannot commit to participating in the creation.

Janina and Jeanne: Talk to dictionary use and usage of clear language and translation of text.

<CharlesHall> author implies. user infers.

Chuck and Janina: talk to infering. Author writes the content. User infers the content.

<Fazio> +1

<Fazio> Janina is totally on point

<Lauriat> +1

<CharlesHall> we use the phrase “the user could infer” in ux

Jeanne: Any other comments on clear language?

Josh: Literacy age in UK, average reading age is about 9 years old. Clear language is important.

<kirkwood> We had some issues solve by https://plainlanguagenetwork.org/plain-language/plain-language-around-the-world/

Jake: Talking to code samples, I put those in resources. Most code examples are provided by ACT rules or WAI-EO group. Where would those live in the writing ?

Jeanne: This goes back about three year ago on a survey Silver put out. The responses came back in that users look at ARIA code samples. Respondents wanted that level of code samples in Silver. We aren't limited to working group to come up with samples.

<Fazio> I might know a few potential contributors that aren't members

Jake: We have basic, description, resources , tests, evaluate, can't we replace samples with resources and talk to various code samples? Jeanne: I just don't want to make it hard to find. Findability is another issue to talk to later.

<CharlesHall> external URIs are subject to change and we could have broken links

<Lauriat> +1 I'd like for us to not write them from AG WG at all. Other WGs for their topics, or platform owners, instead. (Recruiting, we'll need to do)

<CharlesHall> resources could be research

MichaelCrabb: XR met yesterday. Captions and audio descriptions would be looked at in first steps. We will follow the outline of looking functional outcomes etc. We'll finish with guidelines. We will hope to finish in August.

First task is to gather people to work on this and outreach. Next meeting is June.

CharlesH: Immersive web slack community has some people you want to reach out to.

MichaelCooper: APA needs to tie into this (Talking to Janina)

Jeanne: Any other questions for XR?
... To Jake, to conformance architecture and testing , what are your thoughts? You have five minutes :)

Jake: I think we should talk to this next call, to work through next version of chart. Baseline and benchmark testing questions are needed. Is Benchmarking an informative area?

Should we talk to technical way of dealing with WCAG, i.e the usability of accessibility guideline which may be normative.

<michaelcrabb> Have to jump off for another call - have a good week everyone!

I'd like to talk to this more next week.

I.e. will a process be part of a guideline? Login, checkout , are they separate guidelines or combined?

Jeanne: A concrete example is needed to learn about problems and move forward.

<Lauriat> +1 to a concrete example, I think that'd help me understand the proposal and what exactly it means.

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

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