<scribe> scribe: Gottfried
Janina: After this item, we are
going to talk to the AG tf.
... Is WCAG 3.0 formal yet?
Michael: It is possible.
Janina: Any news?
Michael: Back at work. 5 working days to CSUN.
<JF> https://doodle.com/poll/nacwpgxaeukfqzqi
John: The doodle poll is open
until Fri. For CSUN breakfast.
... We are about 13 or 14 persons now.
Janina: Individual checks
Charles: George is in another call, cannot join.
Janina: Color contrast. Trying to
get smarter for calculating color contrast. Spec must include
calculations, and we need mathematics for that.
... How can we present the formula for color contrast in the
spec in an accessible manner?
... Into the calculation go things like font weight, etc.
Developers will just run a tool. But the spec needs to provide
the mathematics for the tool builders.
... WCAG 3.0 will go in FPWG soon hopefully.
Charles: The math of calculating the color contrast has nothing to do with how to present the formula.
John: Next generation spec will
have formulas as part of the normative text.
... What can we use? MathML? MathJax is the bridging solution
today.
Jason: Suggestion: Use MathJax to
include MathML in any HTML5 doc. In a few years - at the time
of the final publication - browsers may support MathML.
... Question is not for the authors, but for how to store the
doc.
John: MathJax is just providing a polyfill?
Jason: Basically yes.
John: Do we have any capability to bring in MathJax lib in the w3c publishing chain?
Janina: If we can include the script sourcing into the doc header, the wgs can decide how to use it.
Jason: You can host the JavaScript lib on your own server - no dependence.
Janina: That would be w3.org (own server)
Michael: We need to ask the web
master about this.
... I suspect W3C would prefer to use MathML directly.
... We would need to get an exception for using MathJax.
Jason: You want the rendering on
the client side.
... Polyfill happens on the client.
... MathJax also supports polyfilling on the server, but that
would create an accessibility issue.
Charles: This hinges on browser
support for MathML - natively.
... Then you don't need the JavaScripting anymore.
... Chromium is starting to render MathML. There was a demo
last year. MathML refresh 4.0 is underway.
... They are adding support for accessibility, also reaching
out to chemistry.
Janina: Summary: For the FPWG
(maybe a month away), we need MathJax. We would prefer the
source be in MathML - W3C spec.
... AT support is currently covered by the MathJax
polyfill.
... When the spec goes to CR/PR, we may have native browser
support for MathML - at least for Chromium.
Gottfried: At some point in the future, may we just remove the MathJax include?
Charles: yes, that is my understanding
Jason: yes. Progress also for Mozilla.
John: Weakest point is: Can we
get MathJax integrated in the spec?
... Are we going to make it in 2025?
Janina: Sure (smile).
... Who is going to make this request for including
MathJax?
Michael: Request for using it in
TR?
... That would be my job to talk to the web master.
... I need a clear description of the proposal.
... For now, edit the spec assuming it will go ahead.
... Either we get an exception for the filtering rules, or the
web master will propose a different solution.
Jason: If this path is not going
forward, let's look at the MathML specs - what they are
doing.
... MathML 3 is on TR.
... MathML 4 is on a Git rep - community group.
Janina: We could reuse their scripts?
Jason: Look at version 3 which is on the TR page.
Charles: MathML 4 is driven by a
community group right now. Not clear whether the TR will be
developed by the exiting wg or a new wg.
... MathML 3.0.1 was published last week, fixing a bug.
... MathML that is put on to the page, must be done
right.
... We have seen incorrect MathML syntax in epub documents.
Janina: We are talking months here. The exception is going to be necessary for this spec.
Michael: MathML 3 uses a
combination of images and MathML rendering.
... Our approach will be forward-compatible - no waste of
time.
Charles: Willing to help.
Jason: Also willing to help testing.
Charles: Does any of our specs display things like chemistry?
Janina: Not that i know.
... We are trying to support authors in styling formulas,
ensuring enough contrast etc.
... Content developers are going to run the tool.
Jason: Was the update on chemistry etc. related to this topic?
Janina: We haven't talked about this in APA for a while. But we can take it up as a topic.
Jason: MathML wg is working on
accessibility support. They intend to develop the MathML 4
spec.
... They also want to define the rules for rending
MathML.
... The main issue for a11y lies in the semantic ambiguity for
mathematical presentation in MathML.
... They develop a system in which optional markup can define
meaning more precisely.
... The proposal under development would involve specific
semantics to be included on MathML elements.
... There is a doc by Neal Soiffer that identifies
ambiguities.
... MathML community group wishes to distinguish chemistry
formulae from general mathematical expressions.
... The community group currently involves chemistry
specialists to help for disambiguation.
<CharlesL> Chemistry expressions / symbols semantics document https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1h-8k_bwQ1bO7gusb0O2DfcEs0DZUAo6QVGYZuVjWVB8/edit#gid=0
Charles: This doc has the
chemistry symbols and ambiguities.
... Trying to reduce the number of elements that are possibly
amibigious.
... People with chemistry knowledge are asked for input.
Jason: Trying to disambiguate by knowing the chemistry subfield or other context.
<CharlesL> Here is the Github repo for the mathml refresh https://github.com/mathml-refresh
Jason: WAI-ARIA is not being looked at because the problem is not a primarily a11y issue.
Janina: Great to see this is moving along.
Janina: We have a cfc from Friday
for the pronunciation tf. Please respond.
... We are expecting more out of RQTF soon such as the new
RAUR.
Michael: It is impossible for me
to do another doc before CSUN.
... I suggest to wait until after CSUN.
Janina: Agree.
Joshue: Should be okay. We did a lot of work, and we are in a good place to publish RAUR after CSUN.
Michael: Wait a second....
<MichaelC> https://www.w3.org/TR/xaur/
action-2224?
<trackbot> action-2224 -- Gottfried Zimmermann to Review ttml profiles for internet media subtitles and captions 1.2 https://www.w3.org/tr/ttml-imsc1.2/ -- due 2019-12-11 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/2224
Janina: We got proper consensus for action-2224.
<janina> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa-admin/2020Feb/0018.html
Janina: All text between
<begin draft comment> and </draft-comment> can be
sent to the TTML wg.
... I will post it.
... Any other action items?
John: On bullet-chatting - i gave
a quick-and-dirty writeup.
... Watching a tv and streaming chat messages as an overlay
over the video.
... Multiple pieces of text showing on the screen.
... Also display on a big wall at conferences.
... There are already doing this in multiple places.
<janina> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2020Feb/0014.html
John: It is a mess regarding a11y.
Janina: I think we have general
consensus as John summarized it.
... I will bring this into coordination group.
John: Can i close the action item?
Janina: yes
... Meeting adjourned
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.154 of Date: 2018/09/25 16:35:56 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: Irssi_ISO8601_Log_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/Josh/John/g Succeeded: s/0epub/epub/ Succeeded: s/specs/documents/ Succeeded: s/Seyfer?/Soiffer/ Succeeded: s/We are expecting more out of RQ soon./We are expecting more out of RQTF soon such as the new RAUR./ Succeeded: s/ and we are in a good place for after CSUN./ and we are in a good place to publish RAUR after CSUN./ Succeeded: s/There are no new charter issues/Wait a second.../ Default Present: janina, Matthew_Atkinson, becka11y, JF, MichaelC, irfan, becky, jasonjgw, Joshue_108_, Joanmarie_Diggs, Gottfried, Joshue108_ Present: janina Matthew_Atkinson becka11y JF MichaelC irfan becky jasonjgw Joshue_108_ Joanmarie_Diggs Gottfried Joshue108_ Johnue108_ CharlesL Regrets: Matthew Found Scribe: Gottfried Inferring ScribeNick: Gottfried WARNING: No date found! Assuming today. (Hint: Specify the W3C IRC log URL, and the date will be determined from that.) Or specify the date like this: <dbooth> Date: 12 Sep 2002 People with action items: WARNING: IRC log location not specified! (You can ignore this warning if you do not want the generated minutes to contain a link to the original IRC log.)[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]