<scribe> scribe: Chuck

CSUN face-to-face & sponsorship?

Shawn: Tiz season to start CSUN planning. Should we do face to face? Which days? Where and how?
... Lot's of parts to the question. AGWG is not having meetings, but task forces are.
... Hotel is not sponsoring rooms this year. We'd have to work that out. Different location? We are by Disney.
... Should we do face to face?
... What would our agenda be?

Jeanne: one q at a time.

<CharlesHall> have not confirmed attendance yet, but will join any meeting(s) we have.

Jeanne: We should have a face to face. It's very productive. Would help us. Could we get a rough count?

Chuck: Don't think I'll be going this year. Other Oracle employees will be going.
... Can join remote.

<Makoto> +1 to have F2F meeting at CSUN. I'll be there.

<jeanne> +1 jeanne

<Lauriat> +1 Shawn

<bruce_bailey> +1 to F2F at CSUN, I will almost certainly be there

Shawn: I'll be in meetings, or get insiders tour of Disney.
... It's a good percentage of who will make it. Want the q on the mailing list. Would q be good to ask if it's Silver AND AGWG?

Jeanne: I assume we would focus on migrating existing sc.
... Our timeline is getting pushed back for reasons not related to us. Makes it easier, takes off some pressure. I'd like to get a lot of work done at CSUN. AGWG participants are experts at WCAG, this could push us forward.
... Would be challenging, they'd have to be tought the new process. But they bring lots of experience.

<janina> +1 to CSUN F2F

Shawn: It was helpful when starting migration outline. We had lots of q, and they were able to answer and help us make good progress.

<CharlesHall> CSUN also provides the opportunity to do guerilla usability testing with pwd

Jeanne: I'll check with chairs to see if I can post.

Janina: Did you note that we have a sponsor?

Jeanne: Didn't want to say that yet. We need to get details, headcount, days.
... Great. Of the things we want to decide, we are a go for meeting. We are go for inviting AGWG that can participate. Anything else?

Shawn: Do we have location?

Jeanne: Depending on headcount we have a location.
... We need to make sure that the room is available on the days we want.

Janina: It's understood that it's not during actual CSUN.

Jeanne: Awesome.

Janina: it's a discussion in the past.

Shawn: We've done monday & tuesday, we've done Sunday in the past. Want to check with mailing list.

Janina: The group needs to clarify the days. I presume we are talking Mon and Tue.
... I recall staying behind and meeting Sunday and Monday in the past.

Jeanne: I would propose Mon and Tue of CSUN week.
... We'll put it out to the list. Jan has issues as she's teaching workshops. Should I set up a....?
... In the past we've done Google Forms, more accessible and we get a spreadsheet.

Janina: I don't have an issue with either.

Jeanne: We'll try in Google Form first. Don't need to worry about permissions and merge.
... I'll do a Google Form, and do an interest poll.
... <hums holiday music>

Janina: 2 cents... most important thing is to integrate AGWG people into Silver. Different mindsets and different ideas. We need to get one introduced to the other.

Jeanne: We'll have first public working draft out by then, that will help too.
... We can move forward.

<Zakim> jeanne, you wanted to talk about sponsorship

Rachael: We are making final decisions on Coga. Sounds like from this discussion things are still up in the air. Do you know when we'll know?

Jeanne: Hopefully by next Tuesday.

Rachael: Going through same process with Coga.

Jeanne: Want to have co-meeting?

Rachael: We are discussing. I'll keep in touch. If we do meet and we overlap we can discuss possibility.

Jeanne: I like Mon and Tue. That's most convenient. But I'm flexible.

Janina: Biggest advantage is that people won't be burned out.

Shawn: We figured out as much as we can in this call. Over next week we'll confirm days. Do we need to know that before we send out interest form?

Jeanne: I'll put a q about the days in the form.

Wiki page for people to sign up, and outreach

<Lauriat> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/silver/wiki/People_Skills_and_Resources

Shawn: Jeanne want to walk through this page and how folks can use it?

Jeanne: Need to put on main page. The idea is Bruce's last week where we would have a place for signup on various skills and interests, depending on sc's. I started directions on how to edit page, and put in link to emailing Shawn and I with our skills and interests.
... If anybody wants to clarify or improve directions, send me a line or fix yourself if interested. There's content for writing and for specific guidelines, plain language, activities or rolls. Thanks for link to EL resources.
... Get started page, designers, developers, testers. Bruce signed up for PM. I listed skills by guideline. Under each one I put a lead, I picked that. I volunteered, I didn't ask. If you don't want to be listed, you can change if desired.
... If you see a blank one and you are interested, put your name in. Or put your name in for any section. For ALT text Makoto is the lead. Jennifer, Bruce and Todd signed up. Bruce is lead for audio description. Rachael is lead for clear words.
... Chuck is lead for visual contrast. Feel free to add your names for your interests.
... Any q?

Bruce: One thing I noticed... our guidelines by activity or roll don't line up to guidance by roll. Do we want to align that better? Not a simple task.

Jeanne: I remember talking about that when we worked on it. I think...
... We've writers, designers, developers, testers... managers would probably be pm, we don't have policy makers.
... Not sure that trainers and educators are a separate roll.

<CharlesHall> added myself to User Needs topic (both to volunteer and confirm my editing permissions)

Jeanne: In plain language discussion we postponed building that tab.
... Makes sense for EO. They write resources for that.
... Shawn, should we have a conversation about adding a tab for individuals with disabilities?

Shawn: We should have the content that would go into that tab. I think the decision on a specific tab, would make more sense for a ux designer. We want a ux designer to review the overall presentation and make it friendly and intuitive.
... One way or another we want that kind of content.

Jeanne: Or we may want a link to...
... Let's postpone. Let's get some content written and see what we have, then eval if we should do that. I'll write it down.
... We won't forget to discuss later.
... That work for people? Bruce?

Bruce: Sounds good to me.

Shawn: I have a q on skills for content writing process. Tests and methods are in one group. I thought that was 2 different things.

Jeanne: Isn't it the same skillset?

Shawn: No. As an example. In AGWG there's people who know how to test that the needs of individuals with disabilities are met, but very few know how to construct things that would pass those tests.
... There's overlap for certain. But I wouldn't assume that somebody that has one skillset would have the entirety of the other skillset.

Jeanne: Would Bruce rather be in test, methods, or both?

Bruce: I don't see the tests different from the methods. I want to be in the methods group more.

Jeanne: Done.

Shawn: Any other q or comments about skills wiki page?
... We did have an outreach as part of agenda item. How do we best recruit people to sign up for these? My gut reaction for a start is have a very quick one or two liner description of each skillset. People would know what they are signing up for and what skills are expected.

<CharlesHall> you can repurpose any of this invitation: https://docs.google.com/document/d/13sdUsdgoEAHXN2OqXwLZRnUmsEVsD3l7bDsN9bttGOE/edit?usp=sharing

Jeanne: Good idea, I'd like some help with that.
... I do have other things I need to write, so couldn't be my priority.

Shawn: Or we could do is start the outreach in silver specifically, we have a # of people who have worked on content writing. For the people that sign up for each section, we can find out if they are comfortable writing a description.

Jeanne: We picked up one person already, in response to my email.
... Should we reach out on twitter? Individually invite? The email was sent, and it did work.

<CharlesHall> I can socialize any invite on the web-a11y Slack Community

Rachael: Personal invitations is a good way to engage.

Jeanne: That consistently works.

Shawn: If we got 20 people and they are new, we don't have the pm bandwidth to manage that kind of response.

Rachael: Can we partner new with someone with experience?

Shawn: We'll move to that model. User needs wrangler or methods wrangler.

<CharlesHall> the Silver CG page says we have 148 members

Jeanne: We can do after we get a few done. Tweak the process, we have the experience with us writing it. Once we get some experience, bringing in outsiders before wouldn't be too helpful. Will burn them out.
... We can't say "here's what we want you to do."
... If someone wants to help describing the skills, I'm happy to insert it.
... Instead what I'd like everyone in this group is to have each individual reach out to one individual in the larger Silver arena. Invite them and encourage them to sign up, we need more writers. Lot's of listeners and lurkers.
... Let's bring in a couple.
... Anything else for this topic?

CSUN face-to-face & sponsorship?

FPWD & Group check-in: what are your milestones, when do you expect to reach each of them, and what help or resources do you need to meet them?

Jeanne: It's looking pretty clear at the moment. Could still change. Looks like our fpwd is moved to Feb.
... Various people outside the group can work on the name, and so that we can have something done by CSUN.
... We need to have our work done by end of Jan, so AGWG can review and we can publish by CSUN.
... This is putting people on the spot. This is more of a roughly "what do you think you can do and what help do you need"?

<CharlesHall> my update: i have a 12-day holiday break in which i intend to spend a couple whole days to get Point of Regard started

Jeanne: Milestones are rough. Not trying to say "you must do this", but trying to get a realistic idea of what people can do by end of Jan and what help can we provide.

Rachael: Do you want clear words?

Jeanne: Yes.

Rachael: We are working on dates.
... Want to have clear words done by end of Dec. I think we are on target.

Jeanne: I'm working over the holidays, no big vacations for me. I'm willing to work.
... We had a new volunteer for clear words.

Rachael: wonderful!

Shawn: Charles put an update in IRC.

Jeanne: Would be willing to get help from low vision, they want to be involved.

Charles: After I get initial template structure created.

Jeanne: They'll be a good help in user needs and methods. Wayne Dick writes tools for various aspects of tools for low vision, could be a big help.

<jeanne> Chuck: Andy and Chuck met and discussed sticking with the WCAG standard. ANdy is in favor of using a new formula.

back to scribing.

<jeanne> ... Andy committed to writing a formula backed by current research this week

<jeanne> ... if we get that, we are on track for January.

Jeanne: Good news.

Chuck: Let's refer as visual contrast.
... OK by me.

<Zakim> Makoto, you wanted to share update on ALT text team

Jeanne: Makoto update.

Makoto: We had meeting with Jeanne last week. We confirmed that we will change our approach. We will focus more on copy and paste work from existing WCAG stuff including EO materials, into silver structure.
... We'll have another meeting this Friday. I have a plan to share our working document regularly (on TUE calls every week) to make sure that alt text team is working in the right direction. Alt text team will be done in Dec, hopefully. Let me know what we need to get done in Jan.

Jeanne: I want to inform group that new members of alt text, Jennifer or Cybele introduced Todd. Todd made list of everything that needed to be updated. We didn't ask for it, but it was a great idea and very helpful.

Makoto: Exactly.

Jeanne: Shawn and I have discussed... be prepared to show whereever you are every Tuesday. For everyone.
... Everybody can see what you are working on and offer help.
... That's why we are here.
... I think you have a lot done Makoto. I'm hoping you have a lot by end of Dec. I think it's just putting things in the right places. Think about having different methods for different type of alt text. They can be general, not necessarily platform specific.
... I thought was flawed about the first time the group was done is that not all alt text is handled the same. Icons have a different approach than informative graphics. I think that's the thing that I would like to see the group capture more clearly.

Makoto: You got it!

Jeanne: That's all of our active groups. Bruce, any updates on audio description?

Bruce: No update this week.

Jeanne: Do you want to pursue for fpwd, or let it coast and work on at CSUN?

Bruce: Thinking about it, but will be challenging.

Jeanne: Agreed, might be... My preference would be to help one of the other groups you signed up for, and use your skills there first. Work on audio description at CSUN.

Bruce: Sounds great.

Shawn: We can end 10 minutes early.

Jeanne: Holiday schedule.

Holiday Schedule

Shawn: I sent message last week, with my schedule for Dec. I'll have a challenging schedule. My next week and a half is busy. Then I'm back for a week then off for the holidays.
... Week of xmas we won't have any calls. New years is a tuesday?

Chuck: I'm off the week of xmas.

Shawn: Week of 23rd most people won't be available. We could do Fri call on 27th and 3rd. We could put in mailing list to check on availability.

Jeanne: people are around by the 3rd.

<CharlesHall> i am available both 27th and 3rd

Jeanne: I'm available on both days.
... Correction, not new years eve.

<jeanne> I am available on Fridays 27 and 3rd

Chuck: Only avail 3rd.

<bruce_bailey> I will be on leave the 27th and 3rd

Janina: I'm around, but need a couple of non-work days. Need to recharge.

<Makoto> I won't be able to make it both 27th and 3rd due to time difference...

Jeanne: Time off is encouraged. No burn out.

Janina: Yes, burnout compounds work.

<KimD> I'm away Dec 23 - Jan 6

<johnkirkwood> oops

Shawn, are you sending out meeting minutes?

<Lauriat> trackbot, end meeting

This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.154  of Date: 2018/09/25 16:35:56  
Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: Irssi_ISO8601_Log_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/Jeanne:  Don't want our sponsor to be snagged by another group.  So on the "low down"//
Succeeded: s/Forums/Forms/
Succeeded: s/Mikoto/Makoto/
Default Present: jeanne, Lauriat, janina, CharlesHall, KimD, johnkirkwood, bruce_bailey, Makoto, Chuck, \
Present: jeanne Lauriat janina CharlesHall KimD johnkirkwood bruce_bailey Makoto Chuck \
Regrets: Peter Shari
Found Scribe: Chuck
Inferring ScribeNick: Chuck
Found Date: 03 Dec 2019
People with action items: 

WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines.
You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.


WARNING: IRC log location not specified!  (You can ignore this 
warning if you do not want the generated minutes to contain 
a link to the original IRC log.)