Education and Outreach Working Group Teleconference -- 22 Nov 2019

<Brent> Scribe: Sharron

<markpalmer> I'm just getting a continuous "Connecting" message when trying to connect to Webex. With you as soon as I can.

<scribe> Chair: Brent

<scribe> Scribe: Sharron

Resource Project Updates

Brent: Wanted to bring everyone up to date since we have these resources in evelopment and not always talk about them. Survey closed yesterday we will be revieiwing those comments. The throuough review of the curricula is combined with the Approval to Publish. We have done consdieable review of this resource and trying to publish by Dec 3. Survey open un Nov 26. Authoring Tools is doing some

testing of the functiona nd filters related to the submission.

Brent: So that is a where we are - any questions?

Evaluation Video

<Brent> Survey Results: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35532/Videos_Eval_Set_Draft1/results

Shadi: Kudos to Howard and others in this time zome who do this every week. Thanks so much to all who have submitted, I have a few items to review with the commenters.
... I hope you remember the videos and have them in the back of your mind.
... one overarching across all the vidoes is the fact that text styles are variable. We have all caps for the name of a title of the resource.
... also t the beginning and endplate the name of the videos. As well some times within the video when a word is magnified by the animated magnifier, it is lower case. But on clipboard displays, it is capitalized. In some cases, there are greyish boxes that surround a word and it is lower case. Another style is the case where purple sticker-like bubble.
... the words in there are lower case. The idea is that we have text that appears in different styles meant to indicate different kinds of messaging. One commenter was troubled by the differnce in display styles and I wanted to check with the full group.

Estella: I exactly made this point. For me it was inconsistent. Now that you have explained, it is editor's discretion. I feel more comfortable when highlighted words begin with a capital.
... for me it would be important to capitalize the first word. Each represents a different concept and should be a new start.

Shadi: It is taken from within a sentence, does that make a difference?

<yatil> [ Eric ok either way as long as titles use TTitle Case. ]

<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say capitalization for opening and endplate not consistent (SAZ said all initial caps, but they're not). +1 for lower case for those random words.

Shawn: Just a note that you said at the first and last they are capitalized, but they are not done consistently.

Shadi: yes we will correct that.

<Laura> +1 to Shawn on lower case for random words

Shawn: I support having those other random words in lowercase since they are mostly pulled from within a sentence and it distinquishes them from the titles.

<Vicki> +1 shawn

<markpalmer> +1

<hidde> +1

<Lewis> +0

<hidde> +1

<eoncins> Sorry I can not hear you I will restart the computer

<dmontalvo> +1 to Shawn's rationale

<Jenn> +1 Shawn

<yatil> +.1 relatively neutral

Shadi: There are a few seconds at the first with a releatively empty screen. There is an opportunity to insert a W3C logo and see what are the thoughts about branding?

<kevin> +1 to what Shawn said

<Vicki> +100 to some branding at the beginning

Shawn: My feeling is to have the logo on the opening plate and we can use the bar across the screen with both W3 and WAI logos. Only for the opening acreen and where it is now.

<Vicki> ha ha

<yatil> +0

Kevin: Yes I agree

<Lewis> +1

<Jenn> +1

<eoncins_> I am in again sorry :)

Shadi: So let's consdier Video 1. When we display a resource title, there appears a banner with the title in caps and logos of W3C and WAI. In that scene, the name of WCAG EM full title appears in a computer acreen but without the logo.
... alternatively is that we could have the ribbon across the screen but across the computer monitor. It is slightly different for the others and don't have space for the logo.

<shawn> +0 for "1:13 display of resource title inside the computer screen - OK without W3C logo?" - that minor inconsistency is fine with me

Brent: I did not really notice it until you pointed it out. I like that it clearly demonstrates that this is a page on the web that you access on your computer. Followed by the banner I think it works.

<eoncins_> Works for me too

<Vicki> fine

Sub-topic: Left align?

<eoncins_> In E2R (Easy to Read) standards left align should be the standard

Shadi: The banner, logos, title, and sometimes we must make a linebreak. Most often, it fits within one line and usually centered text. The logos are left aligned and the text is centered. Is this OK? There is a suggestion to also left align the text.

<shawn> see Video 1 0:37

Laura: I agree with that, the space between the logos and the title is sometimes strange so if the logos are left aligned, the text should be a well.

Brent: I am on the fence, could be fine either way.

<yatil> scribe: yatil

Brent: Could be problematic to left align with longer titles

<shawn> scribe+ sharron

<Sharron> Scribe: +Sharron

<Sharron> Eric: This is not a big problem. Make both lines the same lenght and make it visually nice.

<Sharron> Shadi: This seems more relevant to print. Video tends to be more focused on the center of the screen.

<Sharron> Eric: The text block would be centered but left aligned at the line break.

<eoncins_> +1 to Eric

<Lewis> +1 to Eric

<Sharron> Shawn: Yes that was my point as well. It increases readability. Move Easy Chacks roughtly centered and line up the second line on the left

<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say 2 issues: left aligned and space between logo and text -- see videos 1 at 0:37

<Sharron> Kevin: I get what these comments are saying. I have some fear that will be a bit wierd but am open to consdier it, want to see it. I heard what you said Shadi about eye pulled to center of screen.

<Sharron> Eric: What makes it weird is the logos aligned left, line one beginning as centered and line 2 aligned with that, there are then 3 starting places and can be wierd.

<eoncins_> +1 ro Shawna and Eric but segmentation should be kept with semantic sense

<Brent> +.5 for Kevin, would like to see it.

<Vicki> would like to see it, too.

<Sharron> Shadi: There was a lot of support when first introduced, let's try it and see how it is.

<markpalmer> Me too

<Jenn> I'd like to see it too.

<Sharron> Sub-topic: Video 4

<Sharron> Shadi: Rotating flipping display of all the consdierations made. When it comes to assitive technologies, how do we represent that? Currently using disability icons and wonder if they are mis-used in this context?

<Sharron> Kevin: Yes I caught that and it was disconcerting. There are possibilities like magnifying glass, captions, braille

<Sharron> ...increasing font size thing (letter A in different sizes)

<shawn> +1 to Kevin

+1 to Kevin: Braille, CC, Magnifying glass, AA font resize thing-y, maybe a white cane?

<Vicki> good ideas Kevin

<Brent> +1

<eoncins_> +1 to Kevin

<markpalmer> +1 to Kevin

<Sharron> Sharron: +1

<Laura> +1

<Sharron> Shadi: I am seeing broad agreement, will bring in some icons for review

<Sharron> Sub-topic: Video 5

<Sharron> Shadi: Now the video is called Involving Users in Web Accessibility

<Sharron> ...there is also a buzz word of "user experince" should we reflect that in the title?

-1-ish, seems to make the title only more complicated… But happy to be swayed the other direction.

<Vicki> +1 shawn

<kevin> +1 to trying to include term in narrative

<Laura> +1 to shawn

<hidde> +1 to either

<Sharron> Shawn: This is a little different, it is not really talking about the user experience, it's talking to project managers and others to tell them to include

<Vicki> I think Jenn had to leave

<shawn> people in their process. We could include in the text of the video, like "to help you understand the user experience". But, I'm missing how it would fit in the title.

<Sharron> Shadi: Opening sequence [reads] In reading it aloud it does not jump out as much. But the visuals include icons of each group as spoken and when it gets to 'and others' it gets clunky. So we can remove 'others' entirely or simply not try to display an 'others' icon.

<Vicki> red aliens

+1 for an icon with aliens from outer space

<Sharron> Kevin" Originally I said remove 'others' but now I like the second option.

<Sharron> Sharron: +1 to 'others' with no icon

<Vicki> neutral, don't mind either way

<dmontalvo> +1 to removing it from screen, but not from script

<eoncins_> Bit neutral also

<markpalmer> I'm neutral too

<Laura> neutral

<Vicki> neutral

<Sharron> Shadi: Later in this video when we introduce 2 resources, in minute 1:31 both titles appear. Comment is the banner is already heavy, now we have two on top of each other, one even with a line break.

<Sharron> Eric: Main issue for me is two banners, each with W3C logo etc. I understand why but to me it looks too much.

<Sharron> Brent: I agree it is awkward to see them both and not sure I like it. But it does make the point that there are two references - two items to explore.

<Zakim> kevin, you wanted to suggest using the imagery instead of the banners

+1 to Kevin

<Sharron> Kevin: I was having a listen, it does look a wee bit heavy. The voice is saying there are two. At about 1:20 and 1:24 there are other treatment and maybe you could bring them together in a screen.

<eoncins_> +1 to Kevin

<Sharron> ...Kevin the two stacked banners are only there briefly but long enoough to be jarring. If you used the previously introduced imagery it would be less jarring.

<Sharron> Shadi: Will people really catch what Brent referenced of understanding 'ahh, there are two resources to use'

<shawn> +1 that in 1:32 the eval should be the second resource

<Sharron> Eric: We have the gear and the pen for the Projects resource, maybe have the pencil and the badge that we could use to represent the Evaluation resource – instead of using both titles.

<Sharron> Brent: Realized when Kevin and Eric spoke about these, I see that the section with the two banners across is not necessary if you use the established iconography to bring them together. Combine all of them in one large red circle.

<kevin> s/keving/kevin/

<Sharron> Shawn: I had missed that and agree that the evaluation should be the second resource not the first.

<Vicki> +1

<Lewis> +1

<Sharron> Shadi: As easy as doing this one check, but communicate that there are many simple checks with only one example, rather than "as simple as" May be a very samll nuance but wonder what are thoughts?

-.75

<eoncins_> +1

<Laura> +1

<shawn> +0 I think it's fine either way.

<dmontalvo> +1 to this change

<Brent> didn't see a problem with current. but +1 to the new

<markpalmer> Fine either way

<Sylvie1> Agree with Brent, fine either way

<Sharron> Eric: The new phrasing sounds less clear. There is a disconnect.

<shawn> -0.25 to change

<Sharron> Eric: I understand it but maybe because of existing knowledge.

<Brent> I would like to hear them both again. please

<Sharron> Shawn: Actually voicing it makes me understand it does not flow as well.

<Sylvie1> Ok, sounds clear after hearing both suggestions, I perfer the second, because there is a concrete example

<Brent> +-0 (sitting on the fence and okay with group decision)

<eoncins_> +0 having heard Shawn voice I stay neutral :)

<shawn> “Some checks are as simple as looking at the text displayed in the browser window” OR “Some checks are simple. For example, looking at the text displayed in the browser window”.

<Vicki> i'm swayed with shawn's voice over. the first version makes the checks sound easier which is the objective.

<Lewis> agree with Brent +/- 0

<kevin> -1

<Vicki> -1

<shawn> -0.25 I think the second is too disjointed.

<Sharron> Daniel: Happy to choose about either of these rather than the "text on the screen" version.

<Brent> For me, I go with the group. Rationale, as English as my only language, the first one works for me just fine, but this may be an issue where a primary language is not English.

<Sharron> Kevin: What caused the problem at first was that to say "some" are as easy as this one, is not really true - only one is quite that easy. Tried to distinguish between so we do not exaggerate.

<Sharron> Kevin: I do not feel strongly about it and happy to go with consensus.

<Sharron> Shadi: But I misunderstood that it was not a language issue but actually that you think it is exagerated.

<Sharron> Daniel: It was clear to me that you were referring only to this check, are we trying to say several others are this easy?

<shawn> +1 that some of the checks are that simple -- you do a little things, then look at the text on the screen (also resize text & movement)

<shawn> acl y

Shadi: There are some checks that are simple, even looking at the text on screen

<Brent> Eric: Saying Headings or labels can be done by looking at text in browswer is not accurate. Maybe having it at the end instead.

<Brent> Shawn: There are some checks where you do something first and then look at the text on the screen. I don't feel strongly that this sentence is problematic.

<Brent> Shawn: Maybe take this off line as we cannot solve now.

<Brent> Shadi: Running out of time. I have put together a document of all comments. I am going to share it through the EO Editor's list. You can view it there.

<Brent> Shadi: Still have a question in Video 2 about the "browser plugin" using the puzzle piece for representing the plugin. Any other ideas are welcome and please send them.

<shawn> +1 for continude disucssion :-)

Video 3 sighing/sad person

<shawn> [ Shawn also didn't understand what was happening -- but was fine ignoring it ]

<Brent> Shadi: Some mentioned that they did not know what the person icon was doing at timing 1:08.

<Brent> Kevin: Thought it worked well, but don't have an issue if group does not like it.

<Vicki> I didn't know he/she was sad. I just liked the movement (for a change).

[ Not really liking it but also not feeling strongly. ]

<Brent> Shadi: Trying to find a way to represent discomfort of a person.

<Brent> Kevin: I think it is important to find a way to address the human issue. This represented that and don't want to lose it.

<Brent> Shadi: In other places where we talk about "people," "user exerience," we use the people. Maybe some slightly different use of the people icons will work.

<Brent> Eric: Bothered me a little too. The user is sad. Maybe go with something more positive instead of the sad or poor user not getting served.

<Sharron> Scribe: Sharron

Shadi: Great, thought we got through a lot of points, maybe come back at the end if we have time to brainstorm thoughts about representing browser plugins. In the meantime, please let me know if you have ideas
... Quick thought about plug-in icon was a lego piece, other thoughts, all are welcome.

Mark: Yes that was my idea. I had thought about plugs and that but the puzzle or lego seems better.

<Brent> When searching for "plugin" or "extension" the majority of icons that come up are puzzle pieces. It is fairly standard tagged as a plugin icon.

Mark: My initial concern was that the puzzle piece had an overlap with autism or cognitive disability.

Sharron: I like the lego piece

<Brent> +1 to Eric's browser idea

Eric: IN safari or Firefox, even Chrome, they do use a puzzle piece. May be worth showing it within a browser window to symbolize installed

<Brent> Scribe: Brent

<scribe> Scribe: Sharron

Mark: Putting it within a browser would alliviate my concern.

Shadi: Great to have that resolved, thanks everyone.

Icon treatment

Brent: Been working on getting a solid sense of icons for all the site.

Shawn: Check your email, apologize for now sending sooner. Background is that since we may want to use these elsewhere, we may want to have a better visual design. Please ignore the sound lines in the ear icon and otherwise, are there initial reactions?

Kevin: Very first reactions - the eye looks too real, not iconish. Ear is more cartoony which is appropriate. 3D effect not at all sure I like, the pinky color of the ear is also strange.

Laura: I agree about the color of the ear, otherwise I like it. Agree there is something about the eye that is staring at you. 3D effect on the circle seems not to contribute much.

Brent: The eye is too narrow. May need to be a bit higher and not look so beady, more freindly. I like the ear fine, and have a question about the color. would not use the background color in the video?

Shawn: Yes, although not made decsions so good to have pros and cons

Eric: Contrast issues in the eye, 3D effect kind of 90s retro. Hard to judge out of context. Looks a bit like there is a hearing aid in the ear. They do not look modern, can't imagine using them?

<Brent> Agree with comment Eric said about the hearing aide in the ear.

Shawn: Can these be made modern and cool and like something we might use?

<Laura> the ear looks like a hearing aid to me too. I thought it was intentional.

<Zakim> hidde, you wanted to say I would need to see them in a broader context to be able to judge their effectiveness

Eric: Each has different feeling, they do not cohere. Would need to see them in context with other WAI icons.

Hidde: Would be better to see them across contexts. We have to start somewhere. If we are creating a system of icons, we need to know if they fit with each other.

Vicki: The eye is a bit austere, scary. Staring at you too much. Ear is fine, except for color, would not go with the 3D

WrapUp

<shawn> [ Please send any other input by e-mail ]

<eoncins_> +1 to Brent for Barcelona :)

Brent: We will continue getting feedback through email. Topics we did not get to were the questions about how many face to face meetings to have and where. Please do give this some thought. At some point, we will have to narrow it down. One of the emphases is to not just stay in the US, trying to look for alternative locations.
... other topic was end of the year schedule, will have to decide when we can meet during the end of the year holidays. Make sure we get input about when substantial attendence witll be possible. Please look at attendence surveys and complete them as soon as you knw your schedule.

<shawn> Upcoming meetings: https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/EOWG_Meetings#Upcoming_Teleconferences

Brent: will continue to send announcments about open surveys and work for the week, please try to reponds and we can continue to make progress on the development of these resources. Thansk all!

trackbot, end meeting

- DRAFT -

Education and Outreach Working Group Teleconference

22 Nov 2019

Attendees

Contents

Resource Project Updates

Evaluation Video

Video 3 sighing/sad person

Icon treatment

WrapUp

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

Scribe.perl diagnostic output