Bullet Chatting CG Call -- 08 Nov 2019

<kaz> scribenick: cpn

Group participants intro

Introductions

all: round table introductions

Nominating CG chairs

Fuqiao: The Chair's primary role is to build consensus among members
... Any candidates for chair or co-chairs?

Kaz: If people aren't aware of the CG process, can come back to this later

Future plan and goal for standardisation

<xfq__> https://github.com/w3c/danmaku#introduction

Fuqiao: Here's the current proposal from the W3C Chinese Web IG members
... we welcome new editors in future, if there's interest
... Do we agree with the current path being taken? I'd like to hear your views

Michael: We're from DWANGO, we run Niconico that uses bullet chatting
... We've discussed the direction, the proposal is currently too broad, could focus on more specific elements that are difficult to do
... come up with thing that are useful for the web, as well as bullet chatting
... open to any standardisation that helps make our technology easier to implement and maintain

Fuqiao: An example?

Michael: At TPAC, we discussed tying animations to a media timeline. Would simplify implementations of bullet chatting, but also be generally useful

Kaz: I agree with Michael, I think working on more use cases would be useful for further discussion
... If we clarify more use cases, e.g., around CSS Animation, around 360 video and games etc
... Target may be a data model and format, bring a narrower or more focused view
... I suggest working more on use cases

<tidoust> [Interestingly, the "Recommended *API*" document actually proposes a format, not an API]

Fuqiao: Any thoughts on use cases, eg., around synchronisation?

Kaz: I'm suggesting to narrow the scope

<inserted> scribenick: tidoust

cpn: It does feel to me that doing a gap analysis would be useful
... I can see here a number of things that we may want to standardize
... Animation and media timeline might be one thing.
... Also format between server and client is an open question.

<cpn> scribenick: cpn

Fuqiao: A data format could be useful, for more use cases, useful with text cues, and places where HTML isn't supported
... Can discuss in GitHub to track this

Michael: Good idea to write it down somewhere

Fuqiao: As goal, first thing is deciding what we want to standardise, to take to W3C WGs
... Second is whether we want to write a Rec track document, write use cases first, come up with a timeline for that

Kaz: Usually, W3C groups start with use case clarification, then generating requirements, and gap analysis from existing standards, including APIs, data formats, protocols, etc

<xfq__> https://w3c.github.io/danmaku/usecase.html

<xfq__> current use cases document ^

kaz: Would help to clarify use cases and requirement, then do the gap analysis
... Then we can decide whether to bring to an existing WG or create a new WG

Fuqiao: There's a use case document. The editors split this into two parts: a cases document and a technical proposal
... We can work on clarifying use cases and requirementss first
... Relates to the next topic
... about creating an MEIG TF. Any comments from the existing editors?

<kaz> ( Fuqiao shares the UC doc at: https://w3c.github.io/danmaku/usecase.html)

Huaqi: This has been updated based on the comments from TPAC

Fuqiao: What use cases might be clarified?

Kaz: When Song Xu presented at the MEIG TPAC meeting, some people were interested in the proposal
... so it could make sense to think about use cases in a MEIG TF, could work with the CG to update the use case document

<tidoust> scribenick: tidoust

cpn: Regarding use cases, multiple levels, Bullet chatting is a use case in itself. From this initial use case, we can look at what we currently have and look at requirements.
... If we think that a solution such as CSS Animations with synchronization ability can work, this can have broader applications.
... Maybe there is an extra level of use cases to look at. Thinking of it from an end user perspective on top of from a content provider perspective.
... It could be some further analysis on how the bullet chatting is used is useful.
... My feeling reading this is that we already have a good deal to work on from a use cases perspective.

<scribe> scribenick: cpn

<kaz> WoT use case proposals

Kaz: This description is more of a requirement and combination of technologies than use cases
... (shares some use cases from WoT IG)
... For example, using sensor data for health related applications
... So considering what is needed by actual users? What typical setting is required for that purpose?
... Then look at gap analysis as the third phase
... So look at the user-level use cases, then technical requirements, could come up with something we hadn't considered so far

Francois: I would also look at this from a web developer point of view, what do they need to enable these use cases for end users?
... For solutions, there could be convergence to a cue format, APIs, etc

Kaz: Considering from multiple stakeholder viewpoints is useful

Fuqiao: We do this in other standards, e.g., storage APIs. I consider this similar

Possible TF in MEIG

Fuqiao: The MEIG develops all media related use cases and requirements in W3C, generates task forces on specific topics

<tidoust> scribenick: tidoust

cpn: The Media & Entertainment IG is really a place where the different industry stakeholders can exchange together. Content providers, content distributors, device manufacturers. A good cross-section of the media industry.
... Historically, it's been influential in influencing standardadization
... Looking at initial use cases and requirements.
... Good example is media streaming.
... How do we do streaming on the Web? The IG was the place where those initial discussions happened. Different directions were considered and that led to practical work in the HTML Media Extensions WG.
... We have a current task force looking at timed metadata events. So this area of synchronizing content with media is something that we're currently thinking about in general.

<kaz> Task Forces of the Media and Entertainment IG have been working on various topics including Media Timed Events, Media APIs, Timed Text, Media Pipeline, etc.

cpn: One of the benefits to doing this work as a task force in the IG is that it would bring broader feedback on the topic.
... For instance, Pierre-Anthony, MEIG co-Chair, is very active in IMSC1 discussions.
... Nigel, TTWG co-Chair, is around as well.
... It seems useful to have these perspectives brought to this topic. That's why we're suggesting creating a Task Force.
... That would be scoped to use cases & requirements only. Any technical specification work would need to go to another group (e.g. Community Group).

<cpn> scribenick: cpn

Huaqi: I support creating a TF in MEIG. What would be the plan for that?

<tidoust> scribenick: tidoust

cpn: Generally, what we would do is write a short document to set the scope of the task force. Just a few paragraphs, almost like writing a small charter.
... Similar structure to work in the CG really.
... We would need a moderator, equivalent of a CG chair, that is somebody who can organize the work, calls, and otherwise help the task force make progress.

<kaz> Media Timed Events TF page as an example

cpn: The Media & Entertainment IG has monthly conferences. We can use that to introduce the topic and more concrete plan. And/Or we can send the proposal to the mailing-list to let participants review and comment.
... Once that is approved, which should be straightforward, then task force gets created.

<xiaoqian> another example http://w3c.github.io/editing/tf-charter.html

cpn: It's really up to the moderator to organize the work. If recurring calls seem a good idea, we can arrange that. If async work on GitHub is preferred, that works too.
... So:
... 1/ TF description,
... 2/ circulate the proposal within the IG for review and approval
... 3/ TF creation
... 4/ Actual work

<cpn> scribenick: cpn

kaz: You'd get support from the IG co-chairs, as well as team contacts
... Get reviews feedback and suggestions from the other IG members

Fuqiao: An action item is to select a moderator, and write the draft proposal
... If you'd like to think more, we can discuss asynchronously

Kaz: I wonder if Song Xu could be a candidate, but he's not here now. We could think about this later

<tidoust> scribenick: tidoust

cpn: Happy to discuss practicalities with potential candidates

<cpn> scribenick: cpn

Future telecons

Fuqiao: We'd need to think about whether we'd need separate calls for the CG and TF
... Also frequency of teleconferences, e.g, monthly?

<tidoust> scribenick: tidoust

cpn: Question to people developing or implementing this. How frequently do you think it would be useful to have conversations? Is it something that you're actively working on, in which case we should have a call sooner rather than later.

<scribe> scribenick: cpn

Xiaoqian: We have the mini app, want to enable the bullet chatting API. Bilibili and China Mobile are actively modifying the API
... I'd like to create a work mode where people can share demos and documents, not necessarily a phone call

<xfq__> current demos: https://github.com/w3c/danmaku/#demos

Xiaoqian: can we share the demos and latest proposals in GitHub, or have an item in the MEIG calls?

<tidoust> scribenick: tidoust

cpn: Certainly GitHub is a good idea to share demos. Happy to include them in our GitHub repository. Where do the documents live at the moment?

<xfq__> https://github.com/w3c/danmaku/

Fuqiao: on GitHub in "danmaku" repo

<inserted> scribenick: tidoust

<cpn> Fuqiao: Can have topic specific calls as needed, post to mailing list to gauge interest?

<cpn> Kaz: Creating a concrete implementation or demo is useful for standardisation input

<kaz> WoT PlugFest area

<cpn> Kaz: for example, WoT WG has been doing plugfests

<cpn> ... The group has consolidated tools and demos for proposed WoT standards, proof of concepts

<cpn> ... It can be done in a WG, but the relationship between the bullet chatting use case documents and demos is more complicated

<cpn> ... I think the use case and gap analysis can be done in MEIG, demos in the CG

<cpn> ... can have separate repos

<cpn> Xiaoqian: I agree with Chris and Kaz. Other groups are using GitHub issues, we should use these to get consensus, do call for review or call of comments

<cpn> ... If we have a demo in a quick app, we can release as a demo in GitHub and use GitHub notifications to send updates, then people are better prepared for the meetings, to make them more efficient

<cpn> Fuqiao: Any other comments?

<cpn> ... Regarding a moderator, I can reach out to Song Xu.

<cpn> Chris: Next call?

<cpn> Fuqiao: Not planned, may prefer other work mode

<cpn> Huaqi: We need to find a moderator, and prepare the TF material, follow up in 2 weeks?

<scribe> scribenick: cpn

<tidoust> cpn: For the TF materials, this can probably be done through an offline discussion. And then we can decide to schedule another call.

Kaz: And then share with the MEIG and CG

[adjourned]

- DRAFT -

Bullet Chatting CG Call

08 Nov 2019

Attendees

Contents

Group participants intro

Introductions

Nominating CG chairs

Future plan and goal for standardisation

Possible TF in MEIG

Future telecons

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

Scribe.perl diagnostic output