Silver Community Group Teleconference

05 Nov 2019


Makoto, Lauriat, jeanne, KimD, bruce_bailey, kirkwood
Lauriat, jeanne


<Lauriat> trackbot, start meeting

<trackbot> Meeting: Silver Community Group Teleconference

<trackbot> Date: 05 November 2019

Updates from content writing groups

<Lauriat> Jeanne: Clear words, working on methods and tests.

<Lauriat> Scribe: Lauriat

<jeanne> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TOFmSmTuPz6LbNV4nFf-0g_Wwx1k8TwfxzcKzNL8i_Y/edit#heading=h.dyabmhobtay8

Jeanne: If you scroll down to words and phrases, we went through all the things we identified as part of the solution process. We made a list of all of the things that meet the user needs that we identified.
... We marked those quantifiable and those that would require usability testing.
... Interested in people's comments on all of this.
... This is just the methods document, I'll link the main document here, too.

<jeanne> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pqh2BYGS_7banTivDvuagU9F6-xfd2QaJc0Q3g1TkxE/

<Makoto> Alt text - Our original doc: https://docs.google.com/document/d/12MbzzePklkoITusRM7gQyKUHtx6Ygsnd8RYQbIZ-qhM/edit#

<jeanne> scribe: jeanne

<Makoto> Alt text for FPWD: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fE0OZnOGmndBEGo_EI8L8fNWsHfhv3ww6zz-v7CiBn8/edit#

<bruce_bailey> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/silver/wiki/Main_Page#Drafts_of_individual_WCAG_success_criteria_to_migrate_to_Silver

Makoto: We do not think we will have all 5 tabs for the FPWD
... we are working separately to write up the tabs
... it is difficult to do the part about people with cognitive disabilities, because it is new

Jeanne: Is there research that shows that people with cognitive disabilities use alternative text?

Makoto: not that I know of.

Kim: I know there are issues with icon-only controls because people with disabilities need the words.

Shawn: We can send a message to COGA asking their opinion

Bruce: I have heard that there is research that people don't want the popup on title for alternative text because it is distracting.

<Zakim> bruce_bailey, you wanted to ask if that link is one of four in wiki?

<bruce_bailey> +1 for wiki clean up and reorg

<bruce_bailey> looks great!

<bruce_bailey> disabling mouse-over text on most (?) images but keeping pop-up text on icon-only controls (where they are helpful) will be tricky!

JOhnKirkwood: We don't have consensus on the reading level for alternative text for cogntive, but people with cognnitive disabilities use alternative text because of multiple disabilities.

What's going into the FPWD

<bruce_bailey> wrt alt text, i still owe a write-up on how 2.0 effectively divides alt cases into either (1) descriptive identification, or (2) textual equivalents

Updates from content writing groups

Visual Contrast

Andy: Some experiments are continuing. Listed on http://www.myndex.com/WEB/Perception
... you can see how they are proceding
... I got the list of headers for Silver Guideline Explainer
... I have a list of functional needs that are not plain language.

<bruce_bailey> www.myndex.com/WEB/Perception

Andy: I don't know how to do the plain language part

Jeanne: I have two volunteers who will edit for plain language. Let me know when the work is ready for editing.

Andy: Things are progressing

What's going into the FPWD

Shawn: We are trying to get as much content as we can so that we illustrate what we are doing.
... we are going to have drafted pieces of guidance
... we will have placeholders for some of conformance
... we will have examples of top level guidance
... We are still working on the charter negotiations
... some organizations want a more descriptive name for SIlver to go into the charter.

<Lauriat> Jeanne: We'll have the guidelines, the methods, the tests, showing the basics of what Silver can do.

<Lauriat> Jeanne: One person that I talked with last week, I thought we could include sample points, but they recommended against it for FPWD.

<Lauriat> Lauriat: +1 to that

<Lauriat> Jeanne: We can include what we have so far, with notes about it, but we'll leave the points system out of it for now in the FPWD.

<bruce_bailey> +1 to keeping points systems out of FPWD

<KimD> +1 to keeping points out of FPWD

<Lauriat> Jeanne: We had a good proposal for how to do a multitrack for different ways to do the testing that we'll explore a bit more. I'm excited about it.

<Makoto> +1 to keeping points out of FPWD

<Lauriat> Jeanne: If others have more ideas, I'm happy to hear them.

Writing process documentation

Shawn: We want to update the process writing documentation based on what we have learned from the experience of the groups working on writing.


<Lauriat> Jeanne: The process document is linked to from the wiki under writing resources, but I don't believe it's been updated since June. I know there's more detail work done and in other documents.

<Lauriat> Jeanne: I'd like to get started finding and merging the process parts of what's been done.

<Lauriat> Jeanne: The only one I'm familiar with is clear words, and I know there are others.

<Lauriat> Jeanne: I'm looking in the content creation process, under section 1: define the user needs (eight step process, which I didn't see in my document).

<Lauriat> Jeanne: Do others have changes or updates?

<Lauriat> Bruce: That was from what Cyborg walked me through a while back, a very manual kind of process.

<Lauriat> Bruce: What would be helpful is a template document that we can copy and paste from, rather than a process.

<Lauriat> Bruce: Something that has the process and text, with placeholders for the parts you would fill in.

<Lauriat> Jeanne: We did that for AccessU and people complained that it was too confusing, so we broke it out. If people work in different ways, we should support different ways.

<Lauriat> Bruce: I remember from then that Google Docs didn't have a good way to call out placeholder text from template instructional text.

<Lauriat> Bruce: We could maybe have the placeholder cues and instructions as comments, which would make it easier to remove those and not affect formatting. Given the workflow of commenting, though, I don't know if that'd get confusing.

<Lauriat> Jeanne: I have some ideas, I'll do some experimenting.

Andy: We need some help with plain language in translating the user needs into plain language. They are very technical and medical terms.

Shawn: We aren't allowed to publish until the charter negotiations are resolved, so we may have more time before
... we can publish the FPWD

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

[End of minutes]

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.154 (CVS log)
$Date: 2019/11/05 15:29:34 $

Scribe.perl diagnostic output

[Delete this section before finalizing the minutes.]
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.154  of Date: 2018/09/25 16:35:56  
Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: Irssi_ISO8601_Log_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/have seen research/have heard that there is research/
Succeeded: s/website @@/http://www.myndex.com/WEB/Perception/
Succeeded: s/placeholder text from template text/placeholder text from template instructional text/
Succeeded: s/have the placeholder queuing as comments/have the placeholder cues and instructions as comments/
Present: Makoto Lauriat jeanne KimD bruce_bailey kirkwood
Found Scribe: Lauriat
Inferring ScribeNick: Lauriat
Found Scribe: jeanne
Inferring ScribeNick: jeanne
Scribes: Lauriat, jeanne
ScribeNicks: Lauriat, jeanne

WARNING: No meeting chair found!
You should specify the meeting chair like this:
<dbooth> Chair: dbooth

Found Date: 05 Nov 2019
People with action items: 

WARNING: IRC log location not specified!  (You can ignore this 
warning if you do not want the generated minutes to contain 
a link to the original IRC log.)

[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]