<scribe> scribe: JustineP

actions https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/wiki/PlanningPage#Actions

Lisa: main action for COGA is to review user stories
... any progress on Design Guide, Roy?

Roy: will update website when next User Needs draft is available

Lisa: let's move Design Guide off or in coordination call
... shouldn't be on "to do" list if work is not happening
... updates on WCAG since last week?

Jennie: posted to list brief report on Tuesday's AG call. Lots of feedback received. Need links to chatbots not being effective from COGA. Also requesting 1-2 sentences around what ideal chatbot would look like.
... If world's greatest chatbot could be invented, how would it be different?
... I'm not advocating for chatbots but would like to include language in Understanding Doc

Lisa: any suggestions?
... chatbots, if trained for people with cognitive disabilities will perform better for people with cognitive disabilities
... are they basing themselves on the way that people with different learning/cognitive disabilities speak?
... comments?
... any updates, David?
... not yet, will work on action item

Rachael: no updates on my action, will find time next week to meet to discuss Accessible Authentication

Lisa: will put it on my "to do" list

Justine: to send edits to Content Usable section 6 to email list

John F: re-entering task force, responded to Jennie's note about chatbots

<LisaSeemanKest> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/wiki/PlanningPage#Actions

<LisaSeemanKest> John F. to review fast checklist and compair to content useable and patterns

Lisa: just a reminder about your action item to review fast checklist

<LisaSeemanKest> http://w3c.github.io/apa/fast/checklist

John F: is this my action item?

<LisaSeemanKest> https://w3c.github.io/coga/content-usable/#appendix1

Lisa: compare to patterns in Content Usable and see if patterns are missing

John F: fast checklist is something that APA shares with other groups for horizontal review

Lisa: fast checklist focuses on making technology supports certain features
... requirement for technology support
... John F: understand but am concerned that I don't have enough background

John F: will take a look today and see what I can do

Lisa: David, progress on mental health page?

David: Got to Content Readable doc but not the other one

Lisa: comments on Mental Health issues paper..you were going to analyze. We would like that in the next draft.

David: Still on my "to do"

Lisa: Silver prototyping, Rachael what is the status?

Rachael: leave as action. Need an extra week. Will send out for comments.

userneeds objective 3 qand 4 https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xmmQkuZLEG014zDRVkgr3QLyINb7BNvWxqL7POn6Ei8/edit#heading=h.x87newojx2pa

Lisa: first, need to make sure everything is in document. Are going through objectives and see if anything is missing.
... can start mapping user needs that are completed to patterns

<LisaSeemanKest> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1cGFA4RiQ78wHbc9JGWIwGnbgzAQ0j7jItM_BayV13_k/edit#

Lisa: Abi identified some user needs as missing in the above hyperlinked doc. Would anyone like to help with missing user stories?

Jennie: what is the timeline for the task?

Lisa: is 2 weeks do-able?

Jennie: Due to SC work 2 weeks is too fast

Rachael: Would be good to placeholders in and then can wait longer for actual wording

Lisa: Can anyone else help, maybe put in placeholders?
... we can try Editor's list. Alternative to language, gestures is needed.
... I can take if no one else can. Will give myself an action.

Rachael: let's work on this during the editor's call today

<LisaSeemanKest> ACTION: lisa and rachael add the user needs from abis analisis

<trackbot> Created ACTION-318 - And rachael add the user needs from abis analisis [on Lisa Seeman-Kestenbaum - due 2019-11-07].

Lisa: let's look at objective 3, understandable use of content and text
... David, can you explain?

David: basic learning to read issue, need to recognize sight words within 3 seconds. If you can't recognize sight words quickly, can't piece sentence together for reading comprehension
... very important. Anytime visual image gets messy (e.g., overlays) it becomes an issue.

John F: concerned about that and localization/internationalization. What is a sight word in foreign languages? I understand concept but we need to be careful of Western perspective.

David: This relates to Western script languages. Not sure how this relates to world languages, need research.
... most important takeaway is not that sight words need to be processed in 3 seconds, but all words in general need to be processed in 3 seconds. Doesn't just apply to sight words.
... background of website can complicate visual perception of text
... spacing of words can also complicate, different layouts, etc.

John F: still feels very Western in approach. Any language we use will need to make distinction clear

scribe: equivalent to Fast Checklist exists from internationalization group. We can approach with a request to point us to research.

Lisa: my concern is with visual memory and visual recognition of sight words
... try to move away from readability. We are trying to make sites usable. Screen readers can help read on-screen text. I am worried that this could backtrack us and cause us to lose focus.

David F: this is about being able to understand sentence, not individual words

scribe: thinking in a general persepctive

Lisa: How does this translate to what an author should be doing?
... "noise" on screen will make it difficult to read text (e.g., overlays, etc.)

John F: David, do you have examples of failures? If you have a busy background, it will impact more than individuals with cognitive disabilities. This would be a general usability concern.

scribe: concern is with internationalization. Is there a list(s) of world languages sight words that equate to English list? We need to be sure that solution is broad enough.

Lisa: Doesn't matter if there is an overlap with usability. Its okay as long as its essential for cognitive disabilities. We're not bound by WCAG criteria of how appropriate it is for general population.

John F: my concern is that there's a list in English. We can't be dependent on an external list that exists in only one language.

Lisa: We can if it helps to get the issue off the ground
... here, we are trying to make it appropriate for all languages but that isn't essential.

<Fazio> yes

<LisaSeemanKest> +1 tp rachael

Rachael: from what I'm hearing, ability to distinguish letters/characters and word structure...can we step back and say that words are not obscured/visual ability to distinguish characters?

<JF> +1 to Rachael - this is what I am meaning

David F: that's what I was trying to articulate. Found on Google a list of sight words in Spanish. Lists for other languages might exist.

Lisa: I think we need research on the topic.
... let's see if we can fit it into #2.

David F: "can be clearly distinguished" (suggested wording)

Lisa: does proposed wording make sense?

John F: we are getting closer to my original concern

David: things can get in the way of processing words in 3 seconds. We shouldn't focus on sight words and instead focus on processing text. That will impair reading ability.

Lisa: let's leave draft wording for now
... does anyone disagree?

Rachael: not sure phonetics is key part as much as distinguishing letters/letter grouping

David F: Agree. We can keep it simple.

David F: need to be able to read sentence with a fixed number of eye movements

Lisa: we have short sentences/paragraphs covered
... should we change to "words that are easy to distinguish"?

David F: okay

Lisa: will write it in brackets
... we have concept half finished, it needs some work
... anything else missed? Were people able to look at objective 3 a bit more?

Rachael: I went through it. Didn't see anything else that was missing.

Jennie: I didn't have a chance to go through it.

Lisa: next objective: prevent users from making mistakes. Should we take a few minutes to read through?
... do we think objectives 3 and 4 are done? Or do we need more time?
... let's take 5 minutes to read through. When you think you are comfortable, put +1.

<Fazio> +1 objective 3

David F: haven't gotten past objective 3, am reading through them now

Lisa: Next week, we'll review objectives 4 and 5
... will try to close objective 4 if everyone is happy

David F: comment on objective 4. Do we need to have ability to save in general vs. autosave?

scribe: regarding draft wording, goes back to objective 2 regarding ability to find/use save button

Lisa: please read through objectives 4-6 and add comments over next week

trackbot, end meeting

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Guessing input format: Irssi_ISO8601_Log_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/Rachel/Rachael/
Default Present: MichaelC, Rachael, janina, stevelee, Fazio, Jennie, JustineP, JohnRochford, LisaSeemanKest, johnkirkwood, Fazio_, Justine
Present: MichaelC Rachael janina stevelee Fazio Jennie JustineP JohnRochford LisaSeemanKest johnkirkwood Fazio_ Justine
Regrets: abi john EA Johns_R
Found Scribe: JustineP
Inferring ScribeNick: JustineP

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Found Date: 31 Oct 2019
People with action items: lisa

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