Nigel: Today we have WebVTT, and then AOB only, there were no issues marked for the agenda
… where the right people would be present.
… In AOB, we have Charter status update and Philippe wants to tell us about something from the Chinese IG.
… Any other other business?
Gary: There is a new snapshot of the WebVTT repo that Silvia approved, which adds
… the additional at risk items from the current implementation report,
… and also swaps the unsigned long to be a regular long.
Philippe: Just want to make sure we're doing the right things.
… Following the CfC which didn't pass, I would have expected open issues for all the comments
… raised during the CfC, and then address those comments either by doing what Gary is doing or other actions.
… Did we make sure to record as issues all of the comments raised during the CfC?
Gary: I don't think all were made issues.
… The big three are issues.
Philippe: It would be good to raise all of them as issues even if to be raised in v.next.
… You should avoid publishing a CR, then getting a comment when we want to move to PR that something
… was not addressed.
… Do things by the book.
… Raise all the issues, not typos, but anything else.
… Apparently some decision was made about relative importance.
… I want a record.
… Issues is the easiest way.
… In 3 months we can see what we did.
Nigel: Some of the decisions are recorded in minutes, it would be fine to copy those into issues also, for clarity and ease of reference.
Philippe: If you guys feel happy I'm not going to take a strong position.
Gary: I can go through the current things and open issues before we accept the current snapshot.
Philippe: We're not here just to do bureaucracy of course, it's important to open issues when it isn't clear.
Gary: Good to have issues so we do not forget about them.
Philippe: We can move to Rec with open issues if we decide to defer them
… For things related to the IR I would not necessarily expect to find them as issues.
… You're making choices on the spec, let's make sure that the WebVTT CG is clear what is happening.
TTWG #51 for Gary to check issues are opened.
Nigel: Any contentious issues?
Gary: A couple we may want to discuss further, we've definitely talked about the big ones.
… As I open up issues I'll note the ones worth discussing and bring it up on the next call.
Nigel: Let me know agenda items by Tuesday so I can add them to the weekly call agenda please.
Philippe: I'm assuming the plan is to publish a CR and then a month later attempt again to move to PR?
Gary: Yes
Philippe: Great, hopefully this time we will have got it right.
Nigel: What's the status please?
Philippe: I haven't made progress. The Charter has not gone to W3M yet.
… You should feel free to insult me if I don't get it done!
… I am the blocker, I apologise for not getting it done.
… It won't take me long, I've been struggling for time.
Nigel: You're asking me to insult you?
Philippe: Yes
Nigel: Er, your brain is full of flies. [said with humour]
… OK, thanks for the update, please do try to progress it.
Philippe: OK
Philippe: Here's a good new captioning issue.
… Talking to the staff member looking at Chinese requirements,
… they are potentially looking at a new captioning format!
… I wonder what we can do to prevent it from happening.
… Apparently there is a style of captioning used in Japan in China called dan-maku
… They are claiming in their document that neither TTML nor WebVTT supports such a thing.
<plh> https://w3c-proposal-incubation.github.io/danmaku-proposal/
<plh> https://www.w3.org/2019/03/23-chinese-web-media-summary.en.html#item10
<plh> https://www.w3.org/2019/04/09-ac-minutes.html#item01
Philippe: The danmaku proposal is in Chinese.
… They mean commentary subtitles.
… Looking at two potential ways to address the issue.
… 1. Create a new captioning format.
… 2. Create some HTML extensions to do that thing
… My question for this group is do we care? If we care, are they right when they say danmaku is not supported?
… If they are correct, do we want to address the issue?
… Do we need to create a communication channel with them?
Nigel: What is this about? I don't know what we're talking about.
Gary: It's a way to put comments directly on a place in the video.
Nigel: You can do positioning in WebVTT and TTML already, with some issues about viewports vs vision.
Andreas: I spoke with Angel in Quebec at the AC meeting.
… I wrote an email to Pierre and Nigel and Angel addressing this and saying it is interesting work
… and it is important that you provide the requirements to the group.
… I made clear in the thread we do not want a new captioning format.
… We did not continue this discussion.
… First I think it is very important that their work feeds back to existing WGs
… especially on this part. A more general question was discussed at the AC meeting.
… If there is a Chinese IG it is good that local members can connect but they need to make it
… accessible to the rest of the W3C ecosystem. It is a general issue to keep in mind.
… On this issue it is definitely important that whatever they do we have a version that is accessible for other members
… and it would be good if they sent it to this group so we can assess the requirements.
Philippe: Thank you for reminding me it was mentioned at the AC meeting.
… I can help put pressure on the Chinese IG to document their use cases and requirements no later than TPAC
… so we can invite them in the room to present their use cases and requirements for danmaku
Nigel: That would help
-> https://www.w3.org/2019/Talks/ac-slides/cwig/cwig-progress.pdf
Nigel: Angel's slides describe this better.
… It looks like they want to position and synchronise and animate text and that is possible in TTML2 already.
Philippe: They want browser support.
Nigel: They can use TTML2 in browsers if they bring in additional code.
… We can't require browser makers to do work.
Philippe: I agree. They can influence browser makers to implement code so we could tell them to use TTML2.
… If they are willing to put resources in it then they can do something.
… I will tell them to focus on the use cases and requirements.
… We should set ourselves a timeline of "by TPAC have both communities in the same room"
Nigel: That sounds like a good plan.
… Just for completeness, IGs cannot make Technical Reports can they?
Philippe: They can make IG Notes out of the patent policy but they cannot make Recommendations.
… That doesn't mean we can ignore it.
Andreas: From my recollection their process was they wanted to discuss and elaborate and work out what they need
… and my impression was that they not only will gather requirements before bringing it to the membership but also
… have it in a spec-like draft. I think that is not something an IG should do.
Philippe: They are going to do it if they want to. We cannot prevent them.
… We cannot use the Process to stop them!
… It is good this is happening in W3C.
Andreas: It is interesting to find a way to deal with it in a way that helps international standardisation.
Philippe: Absolutely. We should get their use cases and requirements as clear as possible and push them gently in the right direction.
Andreas: In my view this issue has a high priority, to avoid another captioning format, especially because of our
… experience.
Andreas: A lot of people in industry lost a lot of time because of this even if they are not interested in captioning.
… In the long run a lot of people will have more work, which is not what we want.
… I agree it is important to be delicate, but I think the priority to avoid it is high.
Nigel: I agree with that.
Philippe: I totally agree as well.
… Feel free to ask for a report from me about the Chinese IG and danmaku in the next couple of months.
… By the way Atsushi from Japan is a new team contact joining soon so I may ask him to make sure that the WG
… understands the use cases and requirements.
Nigel: I will ask Atsushi to introduce himself.
Philippe: Or wait until he can join a call. He could not join today.
Nigel: I have no regrets showing for July 4 and we don't normally cancel the call but if there are so many regrets
… that is is not viable then I will cancel it.
Gary: I could join next week but prefer not to.
Andreas: Regrets from me for next week - I will add them to the agenda issue.
Nigel: Thanks for raising that Philippe.
Nigel: We've completed our agenda, so let's adjourn. Thank you! [adjourns meeting]