20 Jun 2019


johnkirkwood, Jennie, stevelee, Rachael, Roy_, MichaelC


<Roy_> scribe: Jennie

Rachel: is everyone comfortable with what we are doing for 2.2?
... we are focusing specifically on the intent, and ensuring we have a clearly documented rationale about the intent.
... let's start with "Undo"

<Rachael> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pcg6ixAfuwlo6jb2tkZBGTDhF0fAiO49h21E6HCbQ6I

<stevelee> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pcg6ixAfuwlo6jb2tkZBGTDhF0fAiO49h21E6HCbQ6I/edit?usp=sharing

John K: there was lots of discussion about how to get this in, and various discussion about keeping sessions open with an undo success criteria.

WCAG 2.2 SC: Undo Errors

John K: draft text was put into the IRC.

John K: For people with cognitive disabilities related to memorization and sequencing of steps, that this does not become an overwhelming process, and so they can check their previous work or information to add.

John K: There is a plain language summary to get contribution, and ensure we get to the intent.

John K: not just for the conformation part, but to ensure there are less errors.

John K: for people that are prone to make mistakes is how we describe it, to allow them to feel comfortable without feeling intimidated.

John K: we use the example of booking a trip, with people that need to take breaks.

John K: I'm not sure if it is too late for this, or if this can be brought up, but should this be an A or AA level?

Rachel: it is possible to make recommendations for level at this point. Shall we start with this?

John K: yes.

Rachel: everyone's thoughts?

Alastair: I try to think about this is the more important it is to people, the more you put it up.
... e.g. no alt text, there is no work around, so that tends to push it up.
... where there are work arounds it tends to bring it down a little.
... if it changes the design, it is more likely to bring it down a level.
... Put together the impact, talk about how easy it is to do.

Rachel: can we have consensus that this is not AAA. Any objections?
... I will work on ensuring everyone has access.

Alastair: having information about the impact will help people decide which level to assign.

* deljennie@gmail.com is Jennie's personal email address

<Rachael> Text: When Undo Errors is used: Users are provided with the ability to undo an action and to correct mistakes such that: A user can go back steps in a process via a clearly labeled action. The user can repair information via a clearly labeled action and get back to the place they were at, via a clearly labeled action, without unwanted loss of data. Not dependent on cognitive function: memorizing sequencing steps (except for your own name, email address, or[CUT]

John K: this is very difficult for reservation type interactions.

Steve: Often when you create a message, you don't get a chance to preview it before you send.

<Rachael> ...identification number); correct spelling; performing calculations; copying characters into an input; Exception: If there is a legal requirement for an authentication mechanism and alternatives are not allowed.

Alastair: I'm trying to think of all the different types of multistep processes. A simple survey with multi-steps would fit nicely.
... how about a branching survey? If you answer a question one way or the other, you get sent down different branches.
... you would still want to be able to go back.

<Rachael> When  allowing the user to undo an action or maintaining data may cause harm such as adding risk to the user privacy or security. -When the user has confirmed an action does not have to be reversible. -When allowing the user to undo an action may interfere with the essential function of the content. -When the action can no longer be controlled by the site.

Rachael: there are still exceptions that were discuss.
... for ordering music tickets, for example, there can be a message that mistakes that you are no longer able to go back at some point.

Steve: identifying when there is no possible way of undoing, then having a way to contact people would be helpful.

<alastairc> Similar ideas are within: https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG21/#error-prevention-legal-financial-data

<Rachael> Jennie: should level of severity effect the level?

Jennie: what about the impact of the potential error? For example, a percentage of an account in a financial transaction, or the impact of the error.

Steve: is error the right word? State perhaps.

John K: maybe we should be more focused on notifying the user prior to going to this particular part of the process. That you won't be able to undo.

John K: giving a user notification, rather than insisting that the technology holds the session.

<alastairc> Jennie: Good idea, some people need the ability to go back. How about another method, such as giving people a heads up on what's coming?

Alastair: is everyone aware of the error prevention success criteria.
... there is a lot of overlap which is useful, but also we want to make sure this doesn't overlap it.
... that one is about legal transactions, and ensure that everything is reversible, checked or confirmed.
... do you always need to go back to undo a previous error, or if you have the ability to review everything to edit? Is that equivalent?

Steve: the question then is how you correct the mistake.
... if you want to go back to the step and correct this, how do you do this?

<Rachael> Jennie: chunking informations is important to helping fix errors.

Rachael: John K do you have what you need, or your next steps?

John K: if we can collaborate on it and try to address the issue of what Alastair brought up - the confirmation page in the other success criteria and how this does not mean the same thing, that is a good point.

John K: since it does not allow the person to go back "in context" to where they made the error, that they may not be able to go back through that whole process again

John K: I would welcome collaboration on trying to get this done. I'm going on vacation for a week tomorrow!

Steve: everyone seems to be available Monday, not tomorrow.

John K: I am back the 28th.

John K: so Monday the first.

Rachael: Steve can you coordinator a meeting for after the first?

Steve: yes.

Rachael: Jennie, Alastair, anyone that wants to come to that meeting, please reach out.

Jennie: reminder that July 1 is a holiday in Canada, July 4 in the US

WCAG 2.2 SC: Essential Controls

<stevelee> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1DPtCqWHjrhj3QZ4afsqzmWDd-zMSf39RsMqSpR2QGCg/edit

<Rachael> Essential controls are visible without scrolling

<Rachael> https://onedrive.live.com/?authkey=%21AHGQy6zbsOEGJM4&id=F028E8A4E0410BA7%21134409&cid=F028E8A4E0410BA7

Rachael: what do we consider essential controls on this screen shot?

Alastair: we don't really have a definition of essential.

Rachael: I believe it is the bottom of the document.

<Rachael> Essential: Iif removed, would fundamentally change the information or functionality of the content, and information and functionality cannot be achieved in another way that would conform.

Steve: you could have a hamburger menu, but that wouldn't really help.

Alastair: what are essential controls, and how do we define if they are scrolled to or not.

Steve: is it just scrolled to or is it navigated to?

Rachael: someone suggested the control had to be indicated on the screen (e.g. hamburger menu) so you know they are there.

Jennie: are we discussing submit, and send - things that need to be completed?

Rachael: that has not yet been defined.

Alastair: for those on the screen shot, it is the inbox page, and most things are not essential on this page for the purpose of being on this page. Except new message? And focused and other?
... filter would not be required.

<alastairc> Jennie: The exit / logout would be considered essential?

Steve: if you are working on an email and need to get to the home page, or search is another common one.
... rather than critical they are conventional.

Alastair: the folders is an interesting point - if you have some filters on, then you cannot get to them.

<johnkirkwood> the hamburger menu?

Alastair: I have about 3 screens worth of folders, and you need to scroll down to get to some controls that are way below.
... Maybe grouping would help?

Rachael: maybe we need to rewrite this somewhat - some new designs have the new controls not visible until you touch the correct place?
... does that fall into this?

<Rachael> Jennie: adobe acrobat is another example

Jennie: maybe if there is not another way to access the control like through the ribbon?

Steve: you wouldn't know there are controls unless you scroll all the way down in some user interfaces.

Rachael: essential functions seems key to how we consider this.

Alastair: the difficulty is unity of conformance.
... a control that is essential to the page. In an email that is relatively easy.

<alastairc> https://tcnbpq.bl.files.1drv.com/y4mgXIFn6OYzv9NlYE4AyD1xN2XjQfDWx6vxo1iw1xWUJXJd4CLam9VsXZ1m6PIwEZP_eTz41wAT10WMnl8Oek6s9rK5xwtUUJvtoEadLBqFmrtY21915-4LwxqTVcb4Pwp9oW9pY0WmuaUENNcf9cPfZWSVYJBKYIGrwMxPtJGNmX5R7Ac2Ma8Q2-qgIS7b3ZLOgDadJhBIchv5-YPnacTFg/BBC%20-%20Home%20large.jpg?psid=1

Alastair: for things like the above example to the BBC home page example.
... there a links through to news items, regional BBC information, personalized areas underneath, but it all links through.
... this is where I was struggling to define an essential control.

Steve: designers have trouble with this, since there is so much on the page.

<Rachael> Jennie: skip links are only exposed after selection or when screenreader. They could be exposed and it would solve some issues.

<Rachael> ... it needs to be clearly defined

Rachael: let's consider essential controls, e.g. main navigation. I don't know how we do that, but it would make it testable.

Alastair: in terms of how it helps, and the impact on people, would it be similar to those that may not be digitally savvy? And they might miss it if it wasn't visible to start with?
... if we have a visible marker for essential controls, you may have a table of contents, which adds clutter. But if we were talking about main navigation, submit buttons or main task actions, or something along those lines it defines the scope without capturing other things.

Steve: If it also defines the needs of the users we are trying to help.

Rachael: I can take that action back and see if I can ways to define important controls.
... we had a discussion about search - is there an agreement on this?

Alastair: that depends on the site.

Jennie: context may define the need for search.

Alastair: there may be something we can hook into that speaks to what designers already do.

Rachael: I think that is my action!
... what about help?

Jennie: I am working on the SC for make it easy to find help.

Alastair: I would still try to include it, in case one gets included and the other doesn't.

Jennie: what about the state for example of the submit button?

Rachael: ok, I will capture that.

<Rachael> Jennie: concept of state, but what if not enough information has been completely? If its in a different location then people need to consider it. We need to address state?

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

[End of minutes]

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.154 (CVS log)
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Present: johnkirkwood Jennie stevelee Rachael Roy_ MichaelC
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