<jamesn> New Issue Triage
<jamesn> New pull-request triage
<jamesn> Quick status checks
<jamesn> agenda 1,3,2,4
<scribe> scribe: MarkMcCarthy
<jamesn> agenda order is 1,3,2,4
<pkra> \o/ scott
<pkra> very low volume
<pkra> I can hear him faintly
<CurtBellew> Sorry about that. I'll work on my microphone
jamesn: can probably skip a few
of these, probably been triaged
... any here that haven't?
joanie: I triaged all of them,
since i filed all of them. quick summary: we now have all the
really hard role parity things here, and a list on the wiki of
things discussed w/o consensus
... for each element that we don't have consensus for, i
created a role parity tagged issue for 1.2.
... i can contribute work for math role, think we really need
it for 1.2
... just read melanierichards' issue, related to things already
for 1.2
jamesn: i think we need futher discussion of things we say are supported... etc.
joanie: yes but the decision needs to happen in 1.2
carmacleod: i'll take input type=color, but i'd like to have a discussion about it eventually, doesn't need to be today
jamesn: we'll talk through assignments
<jamesn> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pulls?q=is%3Apr+is%3Aopen+created%3A%3E%3D2019-04-04+
jamesn: thanks melanierichards for doing all these required property ones
carmacleod: that was great!
jamesn: let's talk about what we
want to put on the agenda for next week
... [reading 950]
carmacleod: i asked james craig to review this, he opened OG issue. we can wait until he gets back to me
jamesn: okay, let's put it on next agenda
carmacleod: sounds good
jamesn: placeholder?
carmacleod: yes just put it in editorial
jamesn: we'll put melanierichards
PRs on agenda for next week, please review for next week
... joanie's PR is on agenda for today i believe
joanie: if not, lets discuss next week
jamesn: i'll send specific details along w/ minutes so everything is clear
jongunderson: i did merge the label things into the legend branch, there were conflicts before that are fixed
jamesn: i didn't see anything new or problems with merge, were you expecting something else?
jongunderson: i fixed the legend branch, should be ready
jamesn: i bet we merged the same stuff, there are no problems. if you're expecting a new or different commit, can you make a PR?
jongunderson: i had a conflict when i merged
jamesn: i did too, but pushed into the branch
jongunderson: if all is well, then okay
jamesn: yes i think so
joanie: i resumed work, we had consensus on if we use aria-level (not). do we need one role or two? jongunderson thinks just one, i think just one, but there's some disagreement. do we need one or two? once we have consensus i'll move forward
carmacleod: what would the one rule be called?
joanie: don't think it'd be called importance. put comments in the issue, had an explanation why I thought one, check it there
carmacleod: so an attr to dinstinguish, or no need?
joanie: not sure, that's what I
need input on
... everyone read the comments on github if you haven't, please
leave thoughts for one vs two roles
jamesn: my opinion is one role and we potenetially in the future, 1.3, and an attr to distinguish if necessary
joanie: could you put that in the github comments?
jamesn: yes.
carmacleod: i don't understand your last comment joanie, you answered one for strong, one for emphasis?
joanie: yes, because b isn't strong, i isn't em. we indicated for role parity b and i would be generic...
carmacleod: but there's one each?
joanie: apologies for confusion - do we need one or two? i'll edit my comments to make it clearer, sorry for the mixup
carmacleod: no problem, thought you wanted two
<jamesn> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/852
jamesn: moving back to editorial
cleanup...
... carmacleod, are you good with this?
carmacleod: yes, been resolving comments, move forward
jamesn: okay, we'll do so
jamesn: joanie, anything to add?
joanie: are we ready to merge? or do we want to discuss again next week?
<jamesn> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/425
joanie: james craig was a hold
out but is now on board. we resolved amelia's concerns, i
think. she was worried that things might "break in pre-chromium
edge"
... tl;dr - we're breaking something no matter what, at least
for today
jamesn: i'm personally ready to merge 425. we seem to have worked out how to allow things for now
<pkra> +1 for merge
jamesn: are people happy to merge, or need more time? more time is definitely ok
[silence]
jamesn: hearing no comments, we're good to merge joanie
joanie: okay, so because it needs testing, it's going in editor's draft
jamesn: okay, anything else on that?
carmacleod: i looked at the PR but been reading the issue, want to ask if amelia's last example is in the PR. the one with aria-hidden
joanie: all the PR does is change the property value
carmacleod: as long as merging doesn't close the issue or lose amelia's example...
joanie: she put an example in the
associated issue
... adding examples is part of rewriting the role, she's done
that
carmacleod: okay, thanks!
jamesn: is this going to need APG's work?
joanie: which one? the PR or when we completely rewrite the role?
jamesn: either or both
joanie: AP is awesome, do you have AP guidance for math?
jamesn: no
joanie: so there should be, but not until we rewrite
jemma: APG is happy to work on it when it's ready
joanie: absolutely
jemma: let us know, we'll take
care of it!
... is there a timeline for finishing draft of math role?
jamesn: presumably around f2f
jemma: so about 2 weeks?
joanie: hopefully before f2f, we'll have lots of feedback. HINT HINT
<carmacleod> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/940
joanie: after we have all that great input, we'll debate at f2f, having done that, someone will take that and come up w/ a proposal. so a little more than 2 weeks
jemma: got it, thank you!
jamesn: done with math?
joanie: yep
jamesn: we'll look at melanierichards' PRs next week
<jamesn> https://github.com/w3c/aria/wiki/Plans-regarding-role-parity
jamesn: need to discuss these
plans
... look at what no one is doing and have some folks take them
on
... want to look at specific roles
<jamesn> https://github.com/w3c/aria/wiki/Plans-regarding-role-parity#specific-role
jamesn: fieldset, legend being
taken care of
... joanie is looking at strong and em
... we have audio, video, code, el, iframe open for
adoption
jongunderson: i can take audio and video
joanie: maybe we want to hold off
(take them if you like), but james craig has strong concerns on
audio and video, boiling down to inability to duplicate native
implementations
... maybe we should do a native-audio, native-video. but i
think we could do it, but need really good auth guidance
... just a heads up there might be pushback
jongunderson: well, what is the role of having these? Seems simple, might be a structural container. is it something interactive? requires controls? probably a lot of directions to go in
<janina> http://www.w3.org/TR/media-accessibility-reqs/
jongunderson: we'll need to take into account wcag requirements, like meeting auto-playing rules etc. there's a lot that could be done with HTML elements and their APIs
joanie: i think all this is why james craig said it'd be hard, so definitely take it if you like, no shame in bowing out
jongunderson: i'll take a stab at it
jamesn: awesome!
joanie: awesome, thanks!
jamesn: Harris is assigned to code
janina: i put in a link to the
HTML TF's user reqs. the view that audio and video are complex
is accurate. the fact it'd be useful to have controls, pick
alternative tracks, direct to devices, etc. is important and
valid
... don't know if these sorts of things are actually
implemeneted yet, and it'd be great to have those included as
well
jamesn: we might not necessarily be able to cover everything, depending on browser implementations etc.
jongunderson: for role parity, do we want to look at track or caption elements too?
jamesn: not sure
janina: there's supposed to be a
way to display that and locate it where you want, control the
fonts. it spirals a lot
... i don't know what each browser does. an inventory for this
would be really useful at some point
<jemma> "This means that they will only be viewing a portion of the screen, and so must manage tracking media content via their AT. "
jongunderson: seems like some of this could be for APG
<jemma> what Janina mentioned
janina: the difficult part is getting all this to work with the layers buried in HTML5 elements
jamesn: not sure we can solve everything, but that's good info
janina: happy to help you Jon, let me know
jamesn: comments in that issue will be helpful for everyone!
<jamesn> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/504
jamesn: description list, issue
504. no one assigned. takers?
... Jon if you'd rather do this than audio video, of course
easier to knock out simple things first
jongunderson: do we need audio video for 1.2 or is it nice to have?
jamesn: ideally, we need everything. but best to get agreed on items done first
jongunderson: i can probably get dl done quicker...
carmacleod: looking at the issue, there's a large comment in the issue saying we should compare with HTML as there are some issues there
MichaelC: going on to priorities, my guess is audio and video aria use cases are to allow devs to use custom features...less likely they're building those from scratch, probably a lower priority
jamesn: i disagree, there's places where video is used in a background, like a gif hero image, etc.
MichaelC: hadn't considered that
jamesn: if we get to it, we do, if not we don't. c'est la vie
jongunderson: in this case, i'll start working on dl first
jamesn: great. we also need iframe. takers?
joanie: probably should be easy
jamesn: this could be someone's first role parity issue! you can do it!
carmacleod: that's what i said about generic.....
pkra: I can take it
jamesn: thanks Peter! please assign yourself to it
<jamesn> https://github.com/w3c/aria/wiki/Plans-regarding-role-parity#no-consensus-yet
jamesn: so now we have the no consensus issues. joanie, how should we go about this?
joanie: short answer - if people
want to dive in, go for it
... i need to go back and find where the discussions left
off
jamesn: seems like details and summary are something we could do
joanie: question is why isn't
there consensus? maybe minor or no time, or maybe a heated
argument. who knows.
... might be wading into a quagmire if people want to start, so
keep an eye out
<joanie> +1 to have drafts before face to face
jamesn: there's 13 or 14 issues opened up. if you'd like to take it, write comments, do any work for it, go for it. itd be appreciated
<Scott_O> i have a few comments that i'll be adding to the video/audio issues.
jamesn: drafts prior to f2f would
be great
... if everyone here could take one and work through it, that'd
be great, but understand time is valuable and short
... any more on those?
joanie: i'll add that i'm going
to do a little digging to see if i can find where we left off
and add relevant history to its issue
... to help people decide if they want to take it up
jamesn: like type=password
joanie: right, things like
that
... i think for that, we had no consensus about what character
to use to obscure characters
... so some of this might be 1.3
jamesn: last topic is discussing
f2f. if anyone is coming and hasn't registered yet, please do
so ASAP.
... we have 9 people so far, would be awesome to have
more!
... book your hotels immediately - SF isn't super easy to get
hotels
jongunderson: will there be any APG discussion? or just role parity?
jamesn: current agenda doesn't have that. if you want to add topics, please do!
<Scott_O> unfortunately i won't be able to make it
jemma: is Matt going?
jamesn: yep
jemma: i'll catch up with Matt after about anything related to APG
jamesn: i'd prefer to concentrate any APG discussion on 1.2, but if 1.1 is needed, that's fine
jemma: like meter?
jamesn: yeah, if it's ready for
review then, that'd be good. then we can move things from
master to stable, assuming we have implementations
... Glen will be there, so we'll be able to get some good
advice on AT
carmacleod: will people be able to call in for specific topics?
jamesn: Bryan?
BryanG: there's audio lines, so people can call in
jamesn: we'll set it up. the first agenda items will be planning, but i'll try to update the wiki and have stuff in IRC
carmacleod: awesome, thanks
CurtBellew: i've been putting off decision, but since I have a few days to register, i should be able to decide by then
jamesn: i don't think we'll necessarily reject people, but BryanG will need to know about food etc., so more lead time is better
CurtBellew: I'll know more soon, so thanks for that
jamesn: we can probably fit 3-4
more people comfortably
... awesome, thanks everyone. if you have more f2f topics,
please add them. we have plenty to do but it's easier to
address things in person. anything else to close out?
<jamesn> https://github.com/WhatSock/w3c-alternative-text-computation/issues/16
BryanG: wanted to ask about
this
... difference between HTML hidden and aria-hidden
... issue is saying because the hidden attr is on there and
implicitly applies aria-hidden, it shouldn't be exposed for
accname.
... nothing says that should be the case - is that right?
jamesn: i'd be inclined to agree
Scott_O: I commented on that today, we could probably handle that by saying that in HTML spec that hidden, without display property change, basically maps to aria-hidden: false
jamesn: sounds minimal Bryan
Scott_O: I can take this on, but want to confer with Steve. No worries
BryanG: Yay!
<pkra> bye
jamesn: i'll reply to minutes with actions and PRs to review
<Scott_O> good bye :)
<dbass> JOIN
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.154 of Date: 2018/09/25 16:35:56 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: Irssi_ISO8601_Log_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/in 12/in 1.2/ Succeeded: s/... james craig/joanie: james craig/ Succeeded: s/jemma: we're happy/jemma: APG is happy/ Succeeded: s/definition list/description list/ Succeeded: s/9 people/9 people so far/ Succeeded: s/do1/do!/ Succeeded: s/joane/joanie/ WARNING: Replacing previous Present list. (Old list: MichaelC, MarkMcCarthy, carmacleod, Joanmarie_Diggs, melanierichards, pkra, IrfanA, janina, Scott_O, jamesn, jongund, Bryan_Garaventa, CurtBellew, JaeunJemmaKu, Devarshi) Use 'Present+ ... ' if you meant to add people without replacing the list, such as: <dbooth> Present+ MichaelC, MarkMcCarthy, carmacleod, Joanmarie_Diggs, melanierichards, pkra, IrfanA, janina, Scott_O, jamesn, jongund, Bryan_Garaventa, JaeunJemmaKu, Devarshi Present: MichaelC MarkMcCarthy carmacleod Joanmarie_Diggs melanierichards pkra IrfanA janina Scott_O jamesn jongund Bryan_Garaventa JaeunJemmaKu Devarshi Regrets: Matt_King Harris_Schneiderman Stefan_Schnabel Found Scribe: MarkMcCarthy Inferring ScribeNick: MarkMcCarthy Found Date: 11 Apr 2019 People with action items: WARNING: IRC log location not specified! (You can ignore this warning if you do not want the generated minutes to contain a link to the original IRC log.)[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]