<jonas> RRSAgent: Above page is a 403 error for me
<jonas> oh
<KjetilK> jonas: that's a bot that can be used to generate minutes after the meeting
<jonas> yes, I understood that (afterwards) :-)
<RubenVerborgh> call link is still https://zoom.us/j/4707991524?
<megoth> the call link is https://zoom.us/j/121552099
<justinwb> no it seems it was changed - the proper one was just posted in gitter solid/chat
thanks, switching to new room
<RubenVerborgh> hmmm
<megoth> yes, @justinwb is talking now
<megoth> did you hear anyone else earlier?
<megoth> +1
+1 bi-weekly
<scribe> scribenick: elf-pavlik
RubenVerborgh: i want to remind
about mailing list as very important communication tool
... also github issues
<RubenVerborgh> q ack
<justinwb> +1 to using mailing list more
<megoth> +1 to using mailing list
<RubenVerborgh> actually I was wrong, just ack
<RubenVerborgh> ack
MitziLaszlo, can we use Zoom until we get some Solid solution?
<RubenVerborgh> yay
michielbdejong, I think people objecting are not here now
scribe: but I think that WebRTC tool probably would not work very well
MitziLaszlo: I'll follow up on this question via mailing list
TallTed: give current state of UI / UX in Solid work I see it premature to expect to do everything in Solid world
<megoth> +1 on using zoom until we find something better
TallTed: most people in W3C stay familiar with IRC
<justinwb> minutes should be posted to mailing list
TallTed: we can use Zoom + IRC on the way to polish Solid
<justinwb> +1 zoom and irc
<Alex_Bourlier_> +q
Alex_Bourlier_: not sure on which topic we would become a working group, solid a broad topic
megoth: I'm also not that familiar of workings of W3C groups, we can already work on specs and once we have specific ones we can setup working groups around those and group related specifications
RubenVerborgh: W3C WG have
charter and very specific focus, I don't think we are in this
situation right now, also Solid tries to reuse existing W3C
specs
... once we have clear gaps in specs we can start talking about
creating WG
<TallTed> TallTed: WG might come when we have some stuff to standardize for interop between varying tools, implementers, products, etc. Solid is building on various existing W3 Recs; might encourage revival of WebID WG...
ericP: +1 to what RubenVerborgh said and a lot of Solid is based on existing spec LDP - Linked Data Platform
<Zakim> ericP, you wanted to talk about cost of WG
ericP: it takes convincing enough members of W3C to create a Working Group
<Alex_Bourlier_> @ericP : Thanks !
KjetilK: I also see it little bit premature to go for WG based on previous experience
michielbdejong: +1 to everyone
else said
... most work may focus on writing on apps and writing
servers
... writing implementations not only writing specs
megoth: we might want to work on application access workflow but we can do it once we get there
Alex_Bourlier_: I wrote it on agenda, we see in Web Components a way to empower users
ack
Alex_Bourlier_: I see it a little like WordPress with all its plugings
<megoth> +1 on web components (I like it as a sensible abstraction layer)
elf-pavlik, Hydra CG https://hydra-cg.com
<Alex_Bourlier_> Thanks for sharing
<megoth> Justin (via phone)
<megoth> he's talking about the Solid React SDK that inrupt is working on
justinwb: Solid SDK with app
generators, style guide, everything in github repo
... we've been coordinating with RubenVerborgh on LDFlex
RubenVerborgh: I want to respond
to Web Components, we talk about server architecture but we
should talk more about client architecture
... we should talk more about client architecture, we invested
quite a lot in React tooling
... I realize that they are not Web Components but we should
work with tools that developers are using
https://custom-elements-everywhere.com/
RubenVerborgh, we should minimize framework specific code
<RubenVerborgh> https://ruben.verborgh.org/blog/2018/12/28/designing-a-linked-data-developer-experience/
scribe: right now I will implement what is popular among developers
<Alex_Bourlier_> @Ruben : Will you be at the workshop on the 21st and 22nd of march ?
megoth: we are focusing on React
and Solid React SDK
... we can reuse the design for other frameworks, if the want
to implement Vue or Angular
... Tim and I talk about solid-panes and how to improve it
<megoth> ack
<Zakim> RubenVerborgh, you wanted to talk about Web Components / React and to discuss very short remark on components
<KjetilK> https://github.com/solid/user-stories
KjetilK: you can always send use user stories
<justinwb> https://github.com/inrupt-inc/solid-react-sdk
RubenVerborgh: I see React and Web Components complementary
<megoth> RubenVerborgh: really good point on web components and React
<justinwb> https://github.com/inrupt-inc/solid-style-guide
<TallTed> (Wildcard queue actions, whether `ack next` or `queue=` or otherwise, are often troublesome. I encourage using specific names for q management.)
MitziLaszlo: app registration by Dmitri
ericP: ShEx potential in
solid
... you can find it at https://shex.io
... it has primer and bunch of online resources
... it gives you good idea how it works
... you can try your data online and get validation
results
... it also has spec, language looks somehow like turtle
... spec also has JSON representation
... example of conjunction of three different shapes
... specification is just on the abstract syntax
... we have very extensive test suit
<Alex_Bourlier_> Agreed
elf-pavlik: to contrast ShEx and SHACL
ericP: viewer of tests comes
helpful to just see how something look like in ShEx
... design of ShEx is meant to be extensible
... for network of reused schema
... schemas are reusable by different party
... data doesn't mark itself as conforming to certain
schema
... FHIR specifications
... for exapmle Observation is used by lots of different
settings
... we can import it and add abstract extensions
... sort of like mixins
MitziLaszlo: we need to understand what do you need from Solid community in relation to ShEx
ericP: when you test your data and makings sure it is consistent, you use shapes to test for self consistency etc.
MitziLaszlo, would you like to have more dedicated time to talk about it?
RubenVerborgh: it is my feeling
that shapes will be very important for solid
... it will take work to get data from one shape to other shape
etc.
<justinwb> +1 shapes are the future
RubenVerborgh: we should give it
a careful consideration
... how applications will rely on them
MitziLaszlo: we haven't made it through the whole agenda today
<Alex_Bourlier_> Thanks for sharing Shex !
<justinwb> thanks ericP - awesome work on shex
megoth: I've shared document
above which explains the situation
... we get close to releasing version 5 of NSS
... we have done some work on data access control
specification
... in NSS v4 we used solid-permissions module which allowed
for strict origin checking
... when you send request with applications you have to have
their origin set
... in NSS v5 we returned to strict origin checking by
default
... we use acl-check where Tim rewrites solid-permissions
... by re-enabling strict origin checking we encountered
various regression bugs
... we want to divide the problem and have short term solution
for NSS 5 and long term solution
... NSS 5 fixes a lot of problems with authorizations
already
... maybe we need separate specification for how applications
may ask for permissions from users
... we will turn on strict origin checking in NSS 5 so our
deployments will also have it active
... acl trust app, will allow users to describe origins that
they allow
MitziLaszlo, we have 5 minutes to wrap it up
elf-pavlik: where to follow up on it? especially long term solution
megoth: we suggest turning on
strict origin, merge PR which enables use of trusted app and
start on long term solution
... we also have other ideas
... we could not turn on strict origin but it sends a bad
message
... with trusted-app users can do it, without it acl can
include trusted origin
... we can also look for common trusted origins
michielbdejong: to answer
elf-pavlik, i agree and have the same question and want to make
sure that we work on that
... we need a way that when we share resource we someone else
we can't restrict which app that person can use to access
it
+1
megoth: i will send email to mailing list
MitziLaszlo: any objections to
proposed way to move forward
... follow up meeting in 2 weeks at the same time
<megoth> thanks for the meeting ^_^
Alex_Bourlier_: in two weeks at this time will be a workshop
<michielbdejong> there were no objections, and we decided to move forward with megoth's proposal
<justinwb> +1 to keeping time as is
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.154 of Date: 2018/09/25 16:35:56 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: Irssi_ISO8601_Log_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/in NSS/... in NSS/ Present: justinwb RubenVerborgh elf-pavlik TallTed michielbdejong Found ScribeNick: elf-pavlik Inferring Scribes: elf-pavlik WARNING: No meeting title found! You should specify the meeting title like this: <dbooth> Meeting: Weekly Baking Club Meeting Agenda: https://www.w3.org/community/solid/wiki/Meetings WARNING: No meeting chair found! You should specify the meeting chair like this: <dbooth> Chair: dbooth WARNING: No date found! Assuming today. (Hint: Specify the W3C IRC log URL, and the date will be determined from that.) Or specify the date like this: <dbooth> Date: 12 Sep 2002 People with action items: WARNING: IRC log location not specified! (You can ignore this warning if you do not want the generated minutes to contain a link to the original IRC log.)[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]