<jonas> RRSAgent: Above page is a 403 error for me

<jonas> oh

<KjetilK> jonas: that's a bot that can be used to generate minutes after the meeting

<jonas> yes, I understood that (afterwards) :-)

<RubenVerborgh> call link is still https://zoom.us/j/4707991524?

<megoth> the call link is https://zoom.us/j/121552099

<justinwb> no it seems it was changed - the proper one was just posted in gitter solid/chat

thanks, switching to new room

<RubenVerborgh> hmmm

<megoth> yes, @justinwb is talking now

<megoth> did you hear anyone else earlier?

<megoth> +1

+1 bi-weekly

<scribe> scribenick: elf-pavlik

RubenVerborgh: i want to remind about mailing list as very important communication tool
... also github issues

<RubenVerborgh> q ack

<justinwb> +1 to using mailing list more

<megoth> +1 to using mailing list

<RubenVerborgh> actually I was wrong, just ack

<RubenVerborgh> ack

MitziLaszlo, can we use Zoom until we get some Solid solution?

<RubenVerborgh> yay

michielbdejong, I think people objecting are not here now

scribe: but I think that WebRTC tool probably would not work very well

MitziLaszlo: I'll follow up on this question via mailing list

TallTed: give current state of UI / UX in Solid work I see it premature to expect to do everything in Solid world

<megoth> +1 on using zoom until we find something better

TallTed: most people in W3C stay familiar with IRC

<justinwb> minutes should be posted to mailing list

TallTed: we can use Zoom + IRC on the way to polish Solid

<justinwb> +1 zoom and irc

<Alex_Bourlier_> +q

Drafting a charter and becoming a Working Group

Alex_Bourlier_: not sure on which topic we would become a working group, solid a broad topic

megoth: I'm also not that familiar of workings of W3C groups, we can already work on specs and once we have specific ones we can setup working groups around those and group related specifications

RubenVerborgh: W3C WG have charter and very specific focus, I don't think we are in this situation right now, also Solid tries to reuse existing W3C specs
... once we have clear gaps in specs we can start talking about creating WG

<TallTed> TallTed: WG might come when we have some stuff to standardize for interop between varying tools, implementers, products, etc. Solid is building on various existing W3 Recs; might encourage revival of WebID WG...

ericP: +1 to what RubenVerborgh said and a lot of Solid is based on existing spec LDP - Linked Data Platform

<Zakim> ericP, you wanted to talk about cost of WG

ericP: it takes convincing enough members of W3C to create a Working Group

<Alex_Bourlier_> @ericP : Thanks !

KjetilK: I also see it little bit premature to go for WG based on previous experience

michielbdejong: +1 to everyone else said
... most work may focus on writing on apps and writing servers
... writing implementations not only writing specs

megoth: we might want to work on application access workflow but we can do it once we get there

Mentioning initiatives that you think Solid community should know about

Alex_Bourlier_: I wrote it on agenda, we see in Web Components a way to empower users

ack

Alex_Bourlier_: I see it a little like WordPress with all its plugings

<megoth> +1 on web components (I like it as a sensible abstraction layer)

elf-pavlik, Hydra CG https://hydra-cg.com

<Alex_Bourlier_> Thanks for sharing

<megoth> Justin (via phone)

<megoth> he's talking about the Solid React SDK that inrupt is working on

justinwb: Solid SDK with app generators, style guide, everything in github repo
... we've been coordinating with RubenVerborgh on LDFlex

RubenVerborgh: I want to respond to Web Components, we talk about server architecture but we should talk more about client architecture
... we should talk more about client architecture, we invested quite a lot in React tooling
... I realize that they are not Web Components but we should work with tools that developers are using

https://custom-elements-everywhere.com/

RubenVerborgh, we should minimize framework specific code

<RubenVerborgh> https://ruben.verborgh.org/blog/2018/12/28/designing-a-linked-data-developer-experience/

scribe: right now I will implement what is popular among developers

<Alex_Bourlier_> @Ruben : Will you be at the workshop on the 21st and 22nd of march ?

megoth: we are focusing on React and Solid React SDK
... we can reuse the design for other frameworks, if the want to implement Vue or Angular
... Tim and I talk about solid-panes and how to improve it

<megoth> ack

<Zakim> RubenVerborgh, you wanted to talk about Web Components / React and to discuss very short remark on components

<KjetilK> https://github.com/solid/user-stories

KjetilK: you can always send use user stories

<justinwb> https://github.com/inrupt-inc/solid-react-sdk

RubenVerborgh: I see React and Web Components complementary

<megoth> RubenVerborgh: really good point on web components and React

<justinwb> https://github.com/inrupt-inc/solid-style-guide

Areas of spec to work on

<TallTed> (Wildcard queue actions, whether `ack next` or `queue=` or otherwise, are often troublesome. I encourage using specific names for q management.)

MitziLaszlo: app registration by Dmitri

ericP: ShEx potential in solid
... you can find it at https://shex.io
... it has primer and bunch of online resources
... it gives you good idea how it works
... you can try your data online and get validation results
... it also has spec, language looks somehow like turtle
... spec also has JSON representation
... example of conjunction of three different shapes
... specification is just on the abstract syntax
... we have very extensive test suit

<ericP> https://rawgit.com/shexSpec/shexTest/extends/viewer.html?validation#extends-abstract-multi-empty_fail-Ref2ExtraP

<Alex_Bourlier_> Agreed

elf-pavlik: to contrast ShEx and SHACL

ericP: viewer of tests comes helpful to just see how something look like in ShEx
... design of ShEx is meant to be extensible
... for network of reused schema
... schemas are reusable by different party
... data doesn't mark itself as conforming to certain schema
... FHIR specifications
... for exapmle Observation is used by lots of different settings
... we can import it and add abstract extensions
... sort of like mixins

MitziLaszlo: we need to understand what do you need from Solid community in relation to ShEx

ericP: when you test your data and makings sure it is consistent, you use shapes to test for self consistency etc.

MitziLaszlo, would you like to have more dedicated time to talk about it?

RubenVerborgh: it is my feeling that shapes will be very important for solid
... it will take work to get data from one shape to other shape etc.

<justinwb> +1 shapes are the future

RubenVerborgh: we should give it a careful consideration
... how applications will rely on them

<megoth> https://www.w3.org/community/solid/wiki/Supporting_material:_Details_on_decision_point_about_strict_origin_checking_and_acl:trustedApp

MitziLaszlo: we haven't made it through the whole agenda today

<Alex_Bourlier_> Thanks for sharing Shex !

strict origin handling

<justinwb> thanks ericP - awesome work on shex

megoth: I've shared document above which explains the situation
... we get close to releasing version 5 of NSS
... we have done some work on data access control specification
... in NSS v4 we used solid-permissions module which allowed for strict origin checking
... when you send request with applications you have to have their origin set
... in NSS v5 we returned to strict origin checking by default
... we use acl-check where Tim rewrites solid-permissions
... by re-enabling strict origin checking we encountered various regression bugs
... we want to divide the problem and have short term solution for NSS 5 and long term solution
... NSS 5 fixes a lot of problems with authorizations already
... maybe we need separate specification for how applications may ask for permissions from users
... we will turn on strict origin checking in NSS 5 so our deployments will also have it active
... acl trust app, will allow users to describe origins that they allow

MitziLaszlo, we have 5 minutes to wrap it up

elf-pavlik: where to follow up on it? especially long term solution

megoth: we suggest turning on strict origin, merge PR which enables use of trusted app and start on long term solution
... we also have other ideas
... we could not turn on strict origin but it sends a bad message
... with trusted-app users can do it, without it acl can include trusted origin
... we can also look for common trusted origins

michielbdejong: to answer elf-pavlik, i agree and have the same question and want to make sure that we work on that
... we need a way that when we share resource we someone else we can't restrict which app that person can use to access it

+1

megoth: i will send email to mailing list

MitziLaszlo: any objections to proposed way to move forward
... follow up meeting in 2 weeks at the same time

<megoth> thanks for the meeting ^_^

Alex_Bourlier_: in two weeks at this time will be a workshop

<michielbdejong> there were no objections, and we decided to move forward with megoth's proposal

<justinwb> +1 to keeping time as is

This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.154  of Date: 2018/09/25 16:35:56  
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Succeeded: s/in NSS/... in NSS/
Present: justinwb RubenVerborgh elf-pavlik TallTed michielbdejong
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