JSON-LD Working Group Telco — Minutes
Date: 2019-08-30
See also the Agenda and the IRC Log
Attendees
Present: Ivan Herman, Adam Soroka, Rob Sanderson, Dave Longley, Gregg Kellogg, Pierre-Antoine Champin, Benjamin Young, David I. Lehn
Regrets: Ivan Herman, ruben taelman
Guests:
Chair: Rob Sanderson
Scribe(s): Pierre-Antoine Champin, Rob Sanderson
Content:
- 1. Scribe Selection
- 2. MInutes
- 3. Announcements / Reminder
- 4. Horizontal Reviews
- 5. Issues
- 6. Miscellaneous
- 7. Resolutions
- 8. Action Items
1. Scribe Selection
2. MInutes
Rob Sanderson: the scribe’s job should be easy today
Proposed resolution: Approve minutes of the previous call https://www.w3.org/2018/json-ld-wg/Meetings/Minutes/2019/2019-08-23-json-ld (Rob Sanderson)
Ivan Herman: +1
Gregg Kellogg: +0
Adam Soroka: +1
Rob Sanderson: +1
Dave Longley: +1
Pierre-Antoine Champin: +1
Resolution #1: Approve minutes of the previous call https://www.w3.org/2018/json-ld-wg/Meetings/Minutes/2019/2019-08-23-json-ld
3. Announcements / Reminder
Rob Sanderson: TPAC approaching
… I suggest we have a call next week, but not the following (just before TPAC)
Ivan Herman: +1
Rob Sanderson: Any objection?
Benjamin Young: +1
4. Horizontal Reviews
Rob Sanderson: See horizontal review issues
Ivan Herman: re i18n, I have pinged Richard again. He said he would look at it last week.
… As far as we are concerned, I consider that we are done.
… The proposal for direction in RDF literal got no feedback from the community,
… so the ideal solution will not fly.
Benjamin Young: I reached out to the a11y group
… The current suggestion is to send our answers to the checklist to the mailing list,
… see if anyone cares.
Rob Sanderson: I pinged the Security group this week, no response yet.
… We will see at TPAC.
… The Privacy people did engage, but have nothing much to add.
… We can also meet them at TPAC.
5. Issues
5.1. Final short names
Rob Sanderson: See WG issue #103
Rob Sanderson: Ivan raised this issue. What should ‘jdonld’ point to in the future?
… 1.0 as it currently does, or the most recent version of the spec?
… There has been some discussion on the list.
… The suggestion is that ‘jsonld’ always points to the most recent,
… and ‘jsonld10’ and ‘jsonld11’ point to respective versions.
Ivan Herman: I have to check with the webmasters what exactly the rules are.
… If the WG is fine with this solution, I can start the discussion with them.
… Some people like pointin to the very last working draft,
… I’m not sure that’s a good idea, but we can discuss this later.
Gregg Kellogg: my concern is that this will change what ‘jsonld’ points to…
Ivan Herman: we need not solve this before CR
Rob Sanderson: are there other specifications who reference JSON-LD 1.0 via jsonld
?
… this could lead to strange things for readers,
… especially if those spec say something like “JSON-LD does not support this”,
… while in fact JSON-LD 1.1 does.
Pierre-Antoine Champin: Just wanted to point out that JSON-LD pointing to something else is a matter of perspective. Currently it does point to the latest version
… I would argue it doesn’t change what we point to. Rob’s arguemtn about other specs is a good point.
Ivan Herman: to the best of my knowledge, no W3C spec referencing JSON-LD extend it in a way that azaroth suggests
… Groups out there may have done something nasty in that line,
… but well, they shouldn’t have been nasty.
Gregg Kellogg: if a spec has particular version dependency, they should point to a precise version
Benjamin Young: Activity Streams has its own media-type, because JSON-LD didn’t support lists of lists.
… What would be the impact on testing for other specs?
Rob Sanderson: +1 to dlongley
Ivan Herman: +1
Gregg Kellogg: +1
Benjamin Young: for the curious: https://www.specref.org/?q=json-ld
Dave Longley: I think that the benefit of having the latest version come up for ‘jsonld’ outweights the potential costs.
Action #1: contact w3 team to determine possibility of json-ld shortname pointing to latest version (Ivan Herman)
Gregg Kellogg: what does this mean for us? Sounds like “nothing” in the short term,
… except changing our references from ‘jsonld’ to ‘jsonld10’.
Ivan Herman: correct
5.2. Framing blank nodes
Rob Sanderson: See Framing #27
Dave Longley: See a particular comment
Dave Longley: I raised this issue while trying to frame VC-like data,
… asked if other implementations had the same issue.
… This example generate a strange artifact (“ex:subject” at the bottom).
Gregg Kellogg: this artifact does not produce any triple,
… we can remove it by filtering on type. But is the output still correct?
… The issue may not be in framing, but somewhere else (maybe compaction?).
Rob Sanderson: to try and summarize: in the original data, there is exactly one named graph.
… inside that is a proof which is a graph container.
… The frame generates the subject as a separate graph?
Gregg Kellogg: (something about this behavior being legitimate with other data)
Dave Longley: may be this could be solved with @include
?
Gregg Kellogg: there might be other holes in framing which we have not seen yet…
… We should try to flesh out the test suite further.
5.3. expandContext
Rob Sanderson: See API issue #141
Gregg Kellogg: Ruben suggest it would be more convenient if we could describe options as IRIs rather than strings.
… In the manifest, options are described by key-value pairs, where values are pairs described in the WebIDL description.
… WebIDL does not support IRIs, it is not our job to do it.
… So I think we should reject this PR.
Dave Longley: I agree
Proposed resolution: Reject #141, as underlying webIDL spec does not use IRIs, and not our place to recast into them (Rob Sanderson)
Gregg Kellogg: +1
Rob Sanderson: +1
Dave Longley: +1
Pierre-Antoine Champin: +1
David I. Lehn: +1
Adam Soroka: +1
Benjamin Young: +1
Ivan Herman: +1
Resolution #2: Reject #141, as underlying webIDL spec does not use IRIs, and not our place to recast into them
5.4. algorithmic readability
Rob Sanderson: See API PR #132
Pierre-Antoine Champin: We discussed this a while ago, and I decided to try and make the algorithms a bit easier to read
… Thought it would be convenient to have another view of it for easier to have a global understanding before diving into the details
Gregg Kellogg: See Example for the algorithm
Pierre-Antoine Champin: Tried on one of them to use <detail>
that allows folding/unfolding of the algorithm, and I think it does the job providing we use an appropriate title for the detail to give a good summary
… problem of printing. After some exchange in the issue I added some js that unfolds during printing, so the printed version is complete
… dlongley suggested that an unfold all button would be useful
… only question is about ergonomics – where should the button be? Hovering so it’s always there, or somewhere particular?
… perhaps also a keyboard shortcut for it?
Ivan Herman: In general I’m all for this. Looking for an example for where to put the button
… I’m looking for an example about where to put his button.
Ivan Herman: See OWL Primer example with buttons
Ivan Herman: in the OWL primer, you can switch between syntaxes.
Benjamin Young: buttons are specifically here https://www.w3.org/TR/2012/REC-owl2-primer-20121211/#OWL_Syntaxes
Ivan Herman: There is a set of buttons to do that, somewhere in the introduction.
Gregg Kellogg: we have an similar example in the API.
… How much can we get with CSS selectors? Are there any a11y considerations?
… It shouldn’t be considered as normative change, but could this lead us to change the structure of some algorithms?
Ivan Herman: we should ask Avneesh Singh to have a look at pchampin’s example.
Rob Sanderson: We has a similar button in annotation-model, to switch between Turtle and JSON-LD examples,
… this caused much change in layout, because Turtle was much shorter.
Ivan Herman: that’s why I suggest just one, at the top
Gregg Kellogg: plus each individual <details>
has its own button
Action #2: contact Avneesh Singh regarding a11y of fold/unfold button (Ivan Herman)
Rob Sanderson: +1 to complete
Dave Longley: +1 to complete
Ivan Herman: +1 to complete
Benjamin Young: +1 to complete
Pierre-Antoine Champin: we seem to agree that the printed version should be complete, with all details unfoleded
Gregg Kellogg: could this be done via CSS @media
query rather than JS?
Pierre-Antoine Champin: unfortunately not
Gregg Kellogg: what about epub?
Ivan Herman: if the JS is self contained, it should work
Rob Sanderson: what if JS does not work?
Pierre-Antoine Champin: it will be printed in its current state: any detail that you opened is printed open
Rob Sanderson: that seems acceptable
6. Miscellaneous
Rob Sanderson: we should go to CR in a short number of weeks after TPAC
Ivan Herman: and we have to decide how long we want to be in CR
… depends how advanced the implementations are
Gregg Kellogg: data-related specs should be more advertised at TPAC
Action #3: email Coralie regarding announcement at TPAC (Rob Sanderson)
Benjamin Young: we will have allies in the WoT group
… I’m reaching out the JSON schema group, to help them liaise with W3C.
Gregg Kellogg: https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/japan/fukuoka
7. Resolutions
- Resolution #1: Approve minutes of the previous call https://www.w3.org/2018/json-ld-wg/Meetings/Minutes/2019/2019-08-23-json-ld
- Resolution #2: Reject #141, as underlying webIDL spec does not use IRIs, and not our place to recast into them