W3C

- DRAFT -

Internationalization Working Group Teleconference

09 Aug 2018

Agenda

Attendees

Present
David, addison, xfq, r12a, stpeter
Regrets
JcK
Chair
Addison Phillips
Scribe
addison

Contents


trackbot, prepare teleconference

<agendabot> clear agenda

<scribe> ScribeNick: addison

Agenda and Minutes

Action Items

https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/open

action-729?

<trackbot> action-729 -- Richard Ishida to And fantasai to write an article on ltr scripts historically written rtl -- due 2018-06-28 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/729

close action-729

<trackbot> Closed action-729.

action-741?

<trackbot> action-741 -- Addison Phillips to Reply to verifiable claims wgs request -- due 2018-08-09 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/741

close action-741

<trackbot> Closed action-741.

action-742?

<trackbot> action-742 -- Richard Ishida to Look at merging specdev definitions with definitions-characters article -- due 2018-08-09 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/742

richard: in the middle

Info Share

<scribe> ACTION: addison: set up agenda for tpac

<trackbot> Created ACTION-743 - Set up agenda for tpac [on Addison Phillips - due 2018-08-16].

RADAR and Active Work Review

https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/projects/1

http://w3c.github.io/i18n-activity/projects/

richard: was sent a doc in word on mongolian
... wrote back to them, but limited English
... joined team call in beihang this week
... xfq following up
... bit of movement on india, next meeting tomorrow
... dev support

<r12a> https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/2982

richard: raised issue on paged media
... link above
... education and outreach
... preparing talk slides
... going to speak at workshop on manga in JP for 15 minutes
... intro what we're doing esp. on lang enabling
... then the unicode conference
... and 15 minutes at tpac
... extend the slides for joint presentation with addison
... and speaking at parisweb

http://w3c.github.io/i18n-activity/reviews/

Publish line break article

richard: http://w3c.github.io/i18n-drafts/articles/typography/linebreak.en
... think comments have dried up so done with this and would like to publish
... any objections?

addison: all in favor indicate +1/0/-1 in irc

+1

<r12a> +1

<r12a> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-drafts/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aclosed

<xfq> +1

<stpeter> +1

<David> +1

so resolved

richard: will move on to q element

Length Limits in Specdev

https://github.com/w3c/bp-i18n-specdev

richard: first a pull request

<r12a> https://github.com/r12a/bp-i18n-specdev/

https://github.com/w3c/bp-i18n-specdev/pull/29/commits/2fd72988e0ac6fe98e4535edf9073571d097bca0

<xfq> https://rawgit.com/w3c/bp-i18n-specdev/2fd72988e0ac6fe98e4535edf9073571d097bca0/index.html

<r12a> https://www.w3.org/International/articles/definitions-characters/index

richard: can we accept this PR?

addison: I think so

richard: in definitions-characters
... need to add a new section
... will send in due course

<r12a> https://github.com/w3c/bp-i18n-specdev/issues/28

https://rawgit.com/w3c/bp-i18n-specdev/2fd72988e0ac6fe98e4535edf9073571d097bca0/index.html#characters

<David> R12a: The issues are numbered... The 3rd one conflates grapheme and user-perceived character

<David> Addison: Was written quickly and the variation between terms is not often relevant.

<David> R12a: Will write more. Glyph and user percieved grapheme is the same to a viewer.

<David> Addison: The challenge is to introduce extended grapheme cluster concept, in the article.

<David> R12a: will not define Grapheme. Glyph is used interchaneably

<David> R12a: Different glyphs can represent the same user perceived character

<David> ... there may be multiple glyphs (defined shape in font) to multiple graphemes

<David> Addison: compressing Grapheme cluster to grapheme, in order to simplify for the readed.

<David> Addison: There is a progression from elements to displayed characters

<David> R12a: Section 5. Tautology in describing user perceived characters

<David> Addison: Yes, but there is more needed to clarify

<David> R12a: Multiple glyphs may represent a single user perceived character

<David> Addison: Moving from theoretical to visuals perceived.

<David> R12a: Need to mention CSS "Typographic character unit" it is indivisible for operations on the text.

<r12a> It is standard to backwards delete codepoints, but to forward delete grapheme clusters.

<David> R12a: This needs to be tied to the other terms

<David> R12a: number 7

<David> Addison: not quite correct that you can't cursor into grapheme clusters.

<David> R12a: Complex scripts do require partial replacement inside clusters for syllables on errors.

<David> R12a: would like to move back one and delete, then replace inside the character

<David> Addison: Not appropriate for emoji and some selection cases.

<David> ... might work better with Typographic character unit instead of grapheme cluster

<David> R12a: section 8

<David> Addison: this is area is full of jargon that make it difficult for most people to understand

<David> ... We need to take care to repurpose grapheme, and this is a specification so needs precision

<David> ... TPU is not completely clear

<David> stpeter: agree with R12a's target audience

<David> Addison: We need to refine the set to the required usage, only, rather than fully detailed as e.g. CSS require

https://rawgit.com/w3c/bp-i18n-specdev/2fd72988e0ac6fe98e4535edf9073571d097bca0/index.html#char_truncation

<David> Addison: Is really working with the truncation issue and these terms need to be used meaningfully.

<David> R12a: Will rewrite the article and check with Addison.

<David> Addison: agreed

<David> Addison: We need to choose script for examples. In example 5: to demonstrate that length limits

<David> Addison: Using byte length limits decrease the number of available characters as you go up in unicode code-points

<David> Addison: Will refine Cyrilic/Chinese script examples

<David> ... Emoji are the best 4 byte example

<David> R12a: complex scripts with combining characters reduce the size from bytes radically

http://w3c.github.io/charmod-norm/

<David> Addison: Has done edits on charmod

<David> ...new case folding and terminology content

AOB?

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: addison: set up agenda for tpac
 

Summary of Resolutions

[End of minutes]

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Default Present: David, addison, xfq, r12a, stpeter
Present: David addison xfq r12a stpeter
Regrets: JcK
Found ScribeNick: addison
Inferring Scribes: addison
Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2018Aug/0004.html
Found Date: 09 Aug 2018
People with action items: addison

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