https://rawgit.com/w3c/wcag21/tech-spacing-override/techniques/css/spacing-override.html

<shawn> agenda order is 1, 3, 4, 5, 2

agenda order 1, 2, 5, 3, 4

<scribe> scribe: Jim

zakim open item 1

rebooting WebAIM low vision survey - Jared Smith

jared: aim is to have survey out in august

<shawn> slh: how long leave surveys open?

jared: surveys stay open 4-6 weeks

<shawn> [ Shawn very eager to help with the survey; however, can't for a couple weeks]

Results from low vision survey (2013) https://webaim.org/projects/lowvisionsurvey

all the questions: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-low-vision-a11y-tf/2018May/0027.html

jim comments: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-low-vision-a11y-tf/2018May/0028.html

<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to note answers, too

jim: the answers are included also

js: had about 200 responses

jim: need to get the word out more.

<shawn> [ Shawn's survey got about 400 responses. Will help promote new survey through same channels

js: need help is getting survey distributed.
... looking for new questions, changes to questions, etc.
... looking for longitudinal data... tread lightly on changing questions.
... want everyday/average user. so not too technical questions

<shawn> [ Shawn would like to add questions about user CSS !]

js: most users just use their tools with default settings.
... want to inform the field about what users are doing.
... and have data to back it up.

jim: not many survey's of this type?

slh: got 400 on my survey. got word out to low vision and cognitive. can reuse those channels.

jared: sensitive to posting to tech specific lists so as not to show favoritism

slh: low vision professionals, state orgs, etc.

jon: # of questions

jared: about 30, keep survey to 10 minutes
... not yet done a formal review or new quesions
... if LVTF add comments, then will review and send out a draft

jon: would we ask for anyone to look at things. there are questions about material design... visual affordances, boarders, etc

jim, glenda and alastair have wanted to do this. have done some test runs.

jared: have tried, not had much luck.
... we are working on a color contrast survey, focused on low vision
... in the fall, to tease out WCAG contrast.

jon: true, many factors, color spaces.

<shawn> +1 to these being different surveys

jim: have contacts with LV researchers could get help from them

slh: jared please send reminder with deadline

jon: ask about generalized topic. vision issue - acuity, field, color,

jared: didn't ask because what should be on the list. happy to work on a list.

jon: not specific conditions - add light/glare and contrast sensitivity

<shawn> http://w3c.github.io/low-vision-a11y-tf/requirements#visual-impairments

<shawn> Visual acuity (clarity)

<shawn> Light and glare sensitivity

<shawn> Contrast sensitivity

<shawn> Field of vision

<shawn> Color vision

jared: high keyboard navigation users. surprising

jon: use mouse to get close then finish with keyboard.
... at high magnification hard to keep focus.
... many people not familiar with basic tools browser or AT

<shawn> [ Jim's "toaster knowledge" matches https://www.w3.org/WAI/perspective-videos/customizable/:-)))]

jared: possible to do branching for more technical stuff. try to limit it.

*** jared signs off ***

close item 1

TPAC October (reminder - complete survey)

<shawn> Jim: TPAC in October. survey...

<shawn> ... will send it out again

close item 2

persona quotes updated from EOWG https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pYF6V8_Ce_ZSagb9c7_nj560ned_Vmgd3y7obAWKnk4/edit

open item 5

<laura> AGWG at TPAC 2018: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/TPAC_2018/

<shawn> parameters - https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Persona_Quotes_for_2.1_Understanding_Documents

reflow Persona Quote: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pYF6V8_Ce_ZSagb9c7_nj560ned_Vmgd3y7obAWKnk4/edit#heading=h.1rzai0ldwy38

slh: EO tersified
... provided a positive statement for each

gs: tried writing one on keyboard shortcut... came out really long.

jim: +1 reflow

jon: non-text contrast-- have to hunt for form controls. impacts effieciency. may click on something by accident that takes you to a different page

slh: chose customer service, because call centers are expensive.

jon: keyboard focus is critical ... if we can have 2 or combine them.
... using keyboard to navigate but can't tell where I am on the page
... may have to use extension, or other tool to see

glenda: start with 1 then add later

slh: if two very important issues, may have two. with focus also a browser default issue.

jim: perhaps use the focus quote on the 20 focus SC, and cross reference non-text understanding with the Focus SC

slh: these will be added to understanding doc

all: like the current quotes

laura will shepard the LVTF quotes through AG to get in understanding

jon: hover covers 3 things. I have trouble with things popping up but when I try to look at them they disappear.

add comments to google doc for changes.

close item 5

jim: to make each reflow topic - responsive table, form, toolbars, images, urls. AC or Jake is working on vertical media queries.

close item 3

glenda: need to know where the edge is. contrast with outer or inner edge. pick one.
... definitely not both states. need to know where things work.

jon: have a button, it has a border. then outline shows up, but there is the browser default. can get complicated

trackbot, end meeting

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Guessing input format: Irssi_ISO8601_Log_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/... survey stay open 4-6 weeks/jared: surveys stay open 4-6 weeks/
Succeeded: s/form them/from them/
Default Present: Jim, Shawn, Glenda, JaredSmith(for_survey_topic), Laura, jon_avila

WARNING: Replacing previous Present list. (Old list: Jim, Shawn, Jared, Glenda)
Use 'Present+ ... ' if you meant to add people without replacing the list,
such as: <dbooth> Present+ Jim, Shawn, Glenda, JaredSmith(for_survey_topic)


WARNING: Replacing previous Present list. (Old list: Jim, Shawn, Glenda, JaredSmith(for_survey_topic), Laura, JonAvila, jon_avila)
Use 'Present+ ... ' if you meant to add people without replacing the list,
such as: <dbooth> Present+ Jim, Shawn, Glenda, JaredSmith(for_survey_topic), Laura, jon_avila

Present: Jim Shawn Glenda JaredSmith(for_survey_topic) Laura jon_avila
No ScribeNick specified.  Guessing ScribeNick: jallan
Found Scribe: Jim
Found Date: 24 May 2018
People with action items: 

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