Dataset Exchange Working Group Teleconference

22 May 2018

Meeting Minutes

<antoine> present_

<SimonCox> Simon is here in the IRC, but attending a differnet meeting on sound ... ESIP Semantic Technologies have a monthly at this time

<SimonCox> (or more like present +/-)

<kcoyle> https://‌www.w3.org/‌2018/‌05/‌15-dxwg-minutes

Minutes of last meeting

Karen: any comments for the minutes of the last meeting, any objections?

<roba> +0

<alejandra> +1

<Jaroslav_Pullmann> +1

<LarsG> 0 wasn't there

<riccardoAlbertoni> 0 (i was not there)

<antoine> 0

<DaveBrowning> 0 not there

<annette_g> 0

<SimonCox> +1

no objections so let’s approve them

Resolved: minutes for May 15 approved

<alejandra> +1

publicity for FPWD for DCAT-rev

alejandra: Peter prepared a post

<alejandra> https://‌hackmd.io/‌LFLIbmCxQleSBrRFr9DGbg#

I took his words and modified them slightly to distinguish what we’ve already done and what we have to do

Karen: does anyone know a better place to put this?

alejandra: I put it on the DXWG wiki

Action: alejandra to will put her text on the wiki

<trackbot> Created ACTION-118 - Put her text on the wiki [on Alejandra Gonzalez Beltran - due 2018-05-29].

Karen: we all need to look at which organisations we can reach out to for review

<alejandra> have you got the link to the spreadsheet handy?

please report which organisations you’re contacted on the spreadsheet

Open Actions

<antoine> https://‌www.w3.org/‌2017/‌dxwg/‌track/‌actions/‌109

Antoine: I had a brief discussion with Simon, and it seems okay. Can I remove the labels I’ve proposed for deletion?

<antoine> https://‌lists.w3.org/‌Archives/‌Public/‌public-dxwg-wg/‌2018May/‌0113.html

I was also suggestion some renaming …

Karen: anyone object to removing the set of labels suggested by Antoine?

<roba> +1

[no objections]

Action: antoine to remove the labels he proposed for removal

<trackbot> Created ACTION-119 - Remove the labels he proposed for removal [on Antoine Isaac - due 2018-05-29].

antoine: I would like to give people one more week, as I am not sure who created them and want to give them a chance

Karen: action 107 and 108 are done

David: 108 is superceded by last week’s discussion

Requirements for Profiles

Karen: I’ve been through all of our minutes to see what we’ve approved

<kcoyle> https://‌docs.google.com/‌document/‌d/‌13hV2tJ6Kg2Hfe7e1BowY5QfCIweH9GxSCFQV1aWtOPg/‌edit#

We do need to look at the requirements in the google doc linked above, and which I’ve also notified via email

alejandra: regarding the distribution for the DCAT-rev post, where is it?

Karen: it is in the agenda for this meeting

roba: I think there’s some things we need to address first

Jaroslav_Pullmann asks about the use cases, you want to clarify which use cases the requirements come from, right, but you don’t expect to change the use cases?

Karen: correct

There are some proposed new use cases though

<kcoyle> https://‌github.com/‌w3c/‌dxwg/‌issues/‌238

roba: this one’s mine - this relates to the experience with DCAT-AP

and the governance pattern it describes

I don’t think it was adequately covered in the DXWG use cases document

Karen: any new requirements?

<AndreaPerego> So, it's about including a narrative / an example, right?

roba: I don’t think it brings any new requirements, but instead makes them clearer

Jaroslav_Pullmann: thanks for explaining, but I didn’t really understand why this governance model is needed, could you please clarify?

roba: I would ask for help from the DCAT-AP community for clarification

we should probably change the title to make it easier to understand

AndreaPerego: there is no unique governance profile, so this is a high level requirement. Besides this, DCAT-AP can be used in the profile guidance doc as one of the examples showing how the guidance principles we recommend can be implemented.

kcoyle: one of the issues that is very strong in Dublin core is that profiles are a kind inter community communication

I would emphasis the word community and something like cooperation and consensus

<roba> +1 alejandra

alejandra: I agree with the discussion about community and governance, but aren’t we missing the connection between profiles

kcoyle: we don’t actually have a statement about the relationship between different profiles, or at least I can’t find it

roba: I agreed with alejandra

there a discussion to have about relationships between …

kcoyle: I don’t find any requirements relating to inheritance

roba: conformance ot multiple profiles is all about inheritance

kcoyle: well no, it is about modularity

<SimonCox> inherit == has dependency on?

kcoyle: we need to define inheritance in respect to overriding a base definition

we don’t have a use case to justify that

we need some more clarity there

annette_g: I will reinforce what you were saying

<Zakim> SimonCox, you wanted to comment on 'community'

It is about how one profile relates to another, and we need to work through what the real problems are to determine the corresponding requirements

SimonCox: I strongly agree with tying community to governance, but want to clarify the definition of terms

<AndreaPerego> And where the governance is, depends very much on the organisational structure of a community.

<roba> inherit is a special type of dependency

SimonCox: we could state that profiles inherit requirements from others

<roba> +1 larsG

<antoine> +1 LarsG roba

you want to avoid cycles in dependency chains

annette_g: there are different kinds of dependency here

I think this needs to be broken down a bit to disentangle the different cases

<roba> not any new requirements - it is about capturing the practice of inheritance dependencies in the DCAT-AP experience

we’re not trying to emulate a programming language approach to inheritance

antoine: I wanted to react to the arguments on use cases and requirements.

<kcoyle> https://‌docs.google.com/‌document/‌d/‌13hV2tJ6Kg2Hfe7e1BowY5QfCIweH9GxSCFQV1aWtOPg/‌edit#

Perhaps the use cases and requirements document isn’t sufficiently clear

<antoine> https://‌w3c.github.io/‌dxwg/‌ucr/#ID37

<roba> inheritance effectively - declaration of compatibility with constraints

karen: if you like to edit the google doc (see link above) please feel free to add a better use case

Action: antoine to add requirements to the Europeana use case

<trackbot> Created ACTION-120 - Add requirements to the europeana use case [on Antoine Isaac - due 2018-05-29].

alejandra: I agree that we should be talking about relationships not inheritance

<SimonCox> Profiles/standards have dependencies on other specifications; dependencies = inherit requirements?

<SimonCox> 2. Communities form at many sizes with more or less formal governance practices, but all do define standards/specifications/profiles in practice

roba: I am happy if we rework the Europeana use case to clarify the requirements, I am happy with that

antoine: even if we do that I would be happy to retain Rob’s use case

<roba> any suggestions for better title? (dont want to get into mechanisms for governance...)

<kcoyle> PROPOSED: keep use case proposed by Rob, with Rob's edit title

<roba> +1

<alejandra> this is the link to the UC again: https://‌github.com/‌w3c/‌dxwg/‌issues/‌238

<annette_g> -1

<kcoyle> PROPOSED: keep use case proposed by Rob with edits of the title

<annette_g> -1

annette_g: my concern is more than just the title, I worry that the use case isn’t a statement of problems

roba: I would prefer input from the DCAT-AP folks

kcoyle: how about you try to extract the requirements from the Europeana use case? Does that work for everyone?

<kcoyle> PROPOSED: Rob and Antoine try to extract requirements of Europeana use case

roba: the problem is the lack of traceability of requirements back to the use cases

<roba> +1

<annette_g> +1

<alejandra> +1

<antoine> +1

<Jaroslav_Pullmann> +1

kcoyle: I suggest that Rob and Antoine work together and we will then review the results un an upcoming meeting

<LarsG> +1

<riccardoAlbertoni> +1

<DaveBrowning> +1

<SimonCox> +1

<AndreaPerego> +1

<SimonCox> with clear traceability recorded?

Resolved: Rob and Antoine try to extract requirements of Europeana use case

<Jaroslav_Pullmann> when will be the next call?

<Jaroslav_Pullmann> o.k.

<AndreaPerego> Next week.

kcoyle: the next call is next week at the same time, there is already a skeleton agenda

<Jaroslav_Pullmann> thank you!

<alejandra> thanks, and bye!

<AndreaPerego> Thanks, and bye!

<annette_g> thanks all!

<Jaroslav_Pullmann> bye!

<riccardoAlbertoni> bye, good night/day

<antoine> bye!

<LarsG> Bye and good night

<roba> bye

Summary of Action Items

  1. alejandra to will put her text on the wiki
  2. antoine to remove the labels he proposed for removal
  3. antoine to add requirements to the Europeana use case

Summary of Resolutions

  1. minutes for May 15 approved
  2. Rob and Antoine try to extract requirements of Europeana use case
Minutes formatted by Bert Bos's scribe.perl version 2.41 (2018/03/23 13:13:49), a reimplementation of David Booth's scribe.perl. See CVS log.


Succeeded: s/put/will put/

Succeeded: s/Opem/Open/

Succeeded: s/this is a high level requirement/this is a high level requirement. Besides this, DCAT-AP can be used in the profile guidance doc as one of the examples showing how the guidance principles we recommend can be implemented./

Succeeded: s/requirement/use case/