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20:04:19 <antoine> present_
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20:04:48 <SimonCox> Simon is here in the IRC, but attending a differnet meeting on sound ... ESIP Semantic Technologies have a monthly at this time
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20:05:48 <DaveBrowning> Present+
20:06:03 <SimonCox> present+
20:06:13 <SimonCox> (or more like present +/-)
20:06:40 <annette_g> present+
20:06:46 <alejandra> present+
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20:08:10 <dsr> scribenick: dsr
20:08:26 <kcoyle> https://www.w3.org/2018/05/15-dxwg-minutes
20:08:28 <dsr> Topic: Minutes of last meeting
20:09:02 <dsr> Karen: any comments for the minutes of the last meeting, any objections?
20:09:05 <roba> +0
20:09:10 <alejandra> +1
20:09:15 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> +1
20:09:18 <LarsG> 0 wasn't there
20:09:22 <riccardoAlbertoni> 0 (i was not there)
20:09:22 <antoine> 0
20:09:25 <DaveBrowning> 0 not there
20:09:26 <annette_g> 0
20:09:41 <SimonCox> +1
20:09:43 <dsr> no objections so let’s approve them
20:10:02 <dsr> Resolved: minutes for May 15 approved
20:10:22 <kcoyle> q?
20:10:22 <alejandra> +1
20:10:28 <alejandra> q+
20:10:35 <kcoyle> ack alejandra
20:10:43 <dsr> Topic: publicity for FPWD for DCAT-rev
20:11:00 <dsr> alejandra: Peter prepared a post
20:11:11 <alejandra> https://hackmd.io/LFLIbmCxQleSBrRFr9DGbg#
20:11:24 <dsr> I took his words and modified them slightly to distinguish what we’ve already done and what we have to do
20:12:01 <dsr> Karen: does anyone know a better place to put this?
20:12:09 <dsr> alejandra: I put it on the DXWG wiki
20:12:21 <kcoyle> action: alejandra to put her text on the wiki
20:12:23 <trackbot> Created ACTION-118 - Put her text on the wiki [on Alejandra Gonzalez Beltran - due 2018-05-29].
20:12:24 <dsr> s/put/will put/
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20:13:08 <dsr> Karen: we all need to look at which organisations we can reach out to for review
20:13:29 <alejandra> have you got the link to the spreadsheet handy?
20:13:32 <antoine> q+
20:13:32 <dsr> please report which organisations you’re contacted on the spreadsheet
20:13:43 <AndreaPerego> present+ AndreaPerego
20:14:08 <dsr> Topic: Opem Actions
20:14:16 <dsr> s/Opem/Open/
20:15:28 <antoine> https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/track/actions/109
20:16:15 <dsr> Antoine: I had a brief discussion with Simon, and it seems okay. Can I remove the labels I’ve proposed for deletion?
20:16:30 <antoine> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dxwg-wg/2018May/0113.html
20:17:06 <alejandra> +q
20:17:12 <dsr> I was also suggestion some renaming …
20:17:52 <kcoyle> ack antoine
20:18:29 <dsr> Karen: anyone object to removing the set of labels suggested by Antoine?
20:18:31 <roba> +1
20:19:14 <dsr> [no objections]
20:19:58 <dsr> action: antoine to remove the labels he proposed for removal
20:19:59 <trackbot> Created ACTION-119 - Remove the labels he proposed for removal [on Antoine Isaac - due 2018-05-29].
20:20:42 <dsr> antoine:  I would like to give people one more week, as I am not sure who created them and want to give them a chance
20:20:59 <dsr> Karen: action 107 and 108 are done
20:21:13 <dsr> David: 108 is superceded by last week’s discussion
20:21:35 <dsr> Topic: Requirements for Profiles
20:21:55 <dsr> Karen: I’ve been through all of our minutes to see what we’ve approved
20:22:10 <kcoyle> https://docs.google.com/document/d/13hV2tJ6Kg2Hfe7e1BowY5QfCIweH9GxSCFQV1aWtOPg/edit#
20:22:35 <dsr> We do need to look at the requirements in the google doc linked above, and which I’ve also notified via email
20:22:39 <roba> q+
20:23:09 <kcoyle> ack alejandra
20:23:33 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> q+
20:23:49 <dsr> alejandra: regarding the distribution for the DCAT-rev post, where is it?
20:23:59 <dsr> Karen: it is in the agenda for this meeting
20:24:06 <kcoyle> ack roba
20:24:43 <dsr> roba: I think there’s some things we need to address first
20:24:52 <kcoyle> ack Jaroslav_Pullmann
20:27:20 <dsr> Jaroslav_Pullmann asks about the use cases, you want to clarify which use cases the requirements come from, right, but you don’t expect to change the use cases?
20:27:27 <dsr> Karen: correct
20:28:13 <dsr> There are some proposed new use cases though
20:28:38 <kcoyle> https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/238
20:29:35 <dsr> roba: this one’s mine - this relates to the experience with DCAT-AP
20:30:11 <dsr> and the governance pattern it describes
20:30:27 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> q+
20:30:43 <dsr> I don’t think it was adequately covered in the DXWG use cases document
20:30:45 <dsr> Karen: any new requirements?
20:31:02 <kcoyle> q?
20:31:06 <AndreaPerego> So, it's about including a narrative / an example, right?
20:31:07 <dsr> roba:  I don’t think it brings any new requirements, but instead makes them clearer
20:31:17 <kcoyle> ack Jaroslav_Pullmann
20:31:55 <AndreaPerego> q+
20:32:09 <dsr> Jaroslav_Pullmann: thanks for explaining, but I didn’t really understand why this governance model is needed, could you please clarify?
20:33:33 <dsr> roba: I would ask for help from the DCAT-AP community for clarification
20:33:54 <kcoyle> q+
20:34:08 <dsr> we should probably change the title to make it easier to understand
20:34:11 <alejandra> +q
20:34:22 <kcoyle> ack AndreaPerego
20:34:57 <dsr> AndreaPerego: there is no unique governance profile, so this is a high level requirement
20:35:50 <kcoyle> ack kcoyle
20:36:30 <dsr> kcoyle: one of the issues that is very strong in Dublin core is that profiles are a kind inter community communication
20:37:00 <roba> q+
20:37:02 <annette_g> q+
20:37:04 <dsr> I would emphasis the word community and something like cooperation and consensus
20:37:12 <kcoyle> ack alejandra
20:37:44 <roba> +1 alejandra
20:37:51 <dsr> alejandra: I agree with the discussion about community and governance, but aren’t we missing the connection between profiles
20:39:09 <dsr> kcoyle: we don’t actually have a statement about the relationship between different profiles, or at least I can’t find it
20:39:13 <kcoyle> ack roba
20:39:20 <AndreaPerego> s/this is a high level requirement/this is a high level requirement. Besides this, DCAT-AP can be used in the profile guidance doc as one of the examples showing how the guidance principles we recommend can be implemented./
20:39:21 <dsr> roba: I agreed with alejandra
20:39:23 <SimonCox> q+
20:39:27 <antoine> q+
20:40:03 <dsr> there a discussion to have about relationships between …
20:40:33 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, make logs world
20:40:43 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
20:40:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/05/22-dxwg-minutes.html AndreaPerego
20:41:11 <dsr> kcoyle: I don’t find any requirements relating to inheritance
20:41:21 <alejandra> +q
20:41:35 <dsr> roba: conformance ot multiple profiles is all about inheritance
20:41:45 <dsr> kcoyle: well no, it is about modularity
20:41:55 <SimonCox> q+ to comment on 'community'
20:42:21 <SimonCox> inherit == has dependency on?
20:42:45 <dsr> kcoyle: we need to define inheritance in respect to overriding a base definition
20:43:03 <dsr> we don’t have a use case to justify that
20:43:10 <dsr> we need some more clarity there
20:43:12 <kcoyle> ack annette_g
20:43:23 <dsr> annette_g: I will reinforce what you were saying
20:43:53 <kcoyle> ack SimonCox
20:43:53 <Zakim> SimonCox, you wanted to comment on 'community'
20:44:02 <dsr> It is about how one profile relates to another, and we need to work through what the real problems are to determine the corresponding requirements
20:44:43 <dsr> SimonCox: I strongly agree with tying community to governance, but want to clarify the definition of terms
20:45:15 <AndreaPerego> And where the governance is, depends very much on the organisational structure of a community.
20:46:26 <roba> inherit is  a special type of dependency
20:46:27 <dsr> SimonCox: we could state that profiles inherit requirements from others
20:46:42 <roba> +1 larsG
20:46:51 <antoine> +1 LarsG roba
20:47:15 <dsr> you want to avoid cycles in dependency chains
20:47:19 <kcoyle> q?
20:47:35 <dsr> annette_g: there are different kinds of dependency here
20:48:14 <dsr> I think this needs to be broken down a bit to disentangle the different cases
20:48:20 <roba> not any new requirements - it is about capturing the practice of inheritance dependencies in the DCAT-AP experience
20:48:47 <roba> q+
20:48:58 <dsr> we’re not trying to emulate a programming language approach to  inheritance
20:49:01 <kcoyle> ack antoine
20:50:14 <dsr> antoine: I wanted to react to the arguments on use cases and requirements.
20:50:38 <kcoyle> https://docs.google.com/document/d/13hV2tJ6Kg2Hfe7e1BowY5QfCIweH9GxSCFQV1aWtOPg/edit#
20:50:42 <dsr> Perhaps the use cases and requirements document isn’t sufficiently clear
20:51:02 <antoine> https://w3c.github.io/dxwg/ucr/#ID37
20:52:05 <roba> inheritance effectively -  declaration of compatibility with constraints
20:52:22 <dsr> karen: if you like to edit the google doc (see link above) please feel free to add a better use case
20:52:35 <kcoyle> action: antoine to add requirements to the Europeana use case
20:52:38 <trackbot> Created ACTION-120 - Add requirements to the europeana use case [on Antoine Isaac - due 2018-05-29].
20:52:42 <kcoyle> q?
20:52:51 <kcoyle> ack alejandra
20:53:11 <dsr> alejandra: I agree that we should be talking about relationships not inheritance
20:53:27 <kcoyle> ack roba
20:53:48 <SimonCox> Profiles/standards have dependencies on other specifications; dependencies = inherit requirements?
20:54:33 <antoine> q+
20:54:46 <SimonCox> 2. Communities form at many sizes with more or less formal governance practices, but all do define standards/specifications/profiles in practice
20:54:49 <dsr> roba: I am happy if we rework the Europeana use case to clarify the requirements, I am happy with that
20:54:50 <kcoyle> ack antoine
20:55:15 <dsr> antoine: even if we do that I would be happy to retain Rob’s use case
20:55:59 <roba> any suggestions for better title? (dont want to get into mechanisms for governance...)
20:56:18 <annette_g> q+
20:56:25 <kcoyle> PROPOSED: keep requirement proposed by Rob, with Rob's edit title
20:56:25 <roba> +1
20:56:34 <alejandra> this is the link to the UC again: https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/238
20:56:35 <annette_g> -1
20:56:51 <dsr> s/requirement/use case/
20:56:53 <kcoyle> PROPOSED: keep use case proposed by Rob with edits of the title
20:56:58 <annette_g> -1
20:57:33 <dsr> annette_g: my concern is more than just the title, I worry that the use case isn’t a statement of problems
20:57:59 <dsr> roba: I would prefer input from the DCAT-AP folks
20:58:02 <AndreaPerego> q+
20:58:11 <annette_g> q-
20:58:35 <kcoyle> ack AndreaPerego
20:58:48 <dsr> kcoyle: how about you try to extract the requirements from the Europeana use case? Does that work for everyone?
20:59:11 <roba> q+
20:59:29 <kcoyle> PROPOSED: Rob and Antoine try to extract requirements of Europeana use case
20:59:53 <kcoyle> ack roba
21:01:01 <dsr> roba: the problem is the lack of traceability of requirements back to the use cases
21:01:47 <roba> +1
21:01:49 <annette_g> +1
21:01:51 <alejandra> +1
21:01:53 <antoine> +1
21:01:54 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> +1
21:01:54 <dsr> kcoyle: I suggest that Rob and Antoine work together and we will then review the results un an upcoming meeting
21:01:54 <LarsG> +1
21:01:54 <riccardoAlbertoni> +1
21:01:55 <DaveBrowning> +1
21:01:57 <SimonCox> +1
21:01:57 <AndreaPerego> +1
21:02:09 <SimonCox> with clear traceability recorded?
21:02:10 <kcoyle> RESOLVED: Rob and Antoine try to extract requirements of Europeana use case
21:02:17 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> when will be the next call?
21:02:26 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> o.k.
21:02:28 <AndreaPerego> Next week.
21:02:42 <dsr> kcoyle: the next call is next week at the same time, there is already a skeleton agenda
21:02:45 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> thank you!
21:02:55 <alejandra> thanks, and bye!
21:02:56 <AndreaPerego> Thanks, and bye!
21:02:56 <dsr> rrsagent, make minutes
21:02:56 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/05/22-dxwg-minutes.html dsr
21:02:58 <annette_g> thanks all!
21:03:00 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> bye!
21:03:02 <riccardoAlbertoni> bye, good night/day
21:03:03 <antoine> bye!
21:03:05 <LarsG> Bye and good night
21:03:08 <roba> bye
21:03:09 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> present+
21:03:09 <kcoyle> rrsagent, make minutes v2
21:03:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/05/22-dxwg-minutes.html kcoyle
21:03:11 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> present-
21:03:37 <AndreaPerego> regrets+ PWinstanley
21:03:37 <AndreaPerego> chair: Karen
21:03:48 <AndreaPerego> agenda: https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2018.05.22
21:04:47 <AndreaPerego> meeting: Dataset Exchange Working Group Teleconference
21:04:52 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
21:04:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/05/22-dxwg-minutes.html AndreaPerego
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