Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference

06 Feb 2018


AWK, Kathy, JaeunJemmaKu, kirkwood, JakeAbma, Makoto, alastairc, JF, Joshue108, MichaelC, jallan, SteveRepsher, Glenda, jasonjgw, Greg_Lowney, Mike_Pluke, Mike_Elledge, marcjohlic, adam_solomon
LisaSeeman, Kim_Dirks, Pietro, Rachael, BruceBailey, laura
Mike_Elledge, alastairc


<AWK> Issue 746 - https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/746

<Mike_Elledge> I'll scribe

<AWK> Scribe: Mike_Elledge

<scribe> scribe: mike_elledge

<MichaelC> Scribe: Mike_Elledge

Issue 745 - https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/745

zakim take up item 1

awk: Have gotten many more comments.
... Got a comment on 745, pointed out that there was a response, and got thumbs up.
... Any other comments on 745.

dm: Still not sure about it. One or both sides?

awk: Related?

<alastairc> no conern, seems like they didn't realise the expception, or misread it.

dm: No, but wnated to put it out there.

<JF> +1 to James

jn: Need to leave issue open?

awk: Don't need. An implementation follow-up. puts it into understanding doc queue.
... Make sure it is clarified with examples.
... Accept response?
... Expect we'll wrap 5 issues into single cfc.

RESOLUTION: Accepted as proposed.

Issue 744 - https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/744

<AWK> Proposed response: https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/744#issuecomment-363253832

awk: Three for one. 3 comments after deadline, all same. Include 1.3.4. Have, but not exact form. Proposed response at bottom of issue. See link.
... thanks, working group was able to revise.
... Same text for 746, 747.

jn: auto complete rather than auto fill?

<JF> +1 to *autocomplete*

jf: acutally called tokens in html5 spec.

jn: Happy so long as consistent with HTML5 spec.

<JF> https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/form-control-infrastructure.html#autofill

jf: Both autofill and autocomplete in wg.

awt: section is autofill. Don't really care. Eitehr has some basis.

jn: If section is autofill, okay.

<marcjohlic> +1 to /

jf: Have to be clear in understanding doc.

awk: Better autofill/autocomplete?

<alastairc> W3C ref: https://www.w3.org/TR/html52/sec-forms.html#autofill

<alastairc> (which is the same content essentially)

jn: With values hae to be autocomplete.

awk: autofill field name.

jn: They're inconsistent.

<JF> W3C: https://www.w3.org/TR/html5/sec-forms.html#sec-autofill

awk: "Autofill field names".

jf: Prefer autofill detail tokens

awk: Okay.

<david-macdonald> https://www.w3.org/TR/html52/sec-forms.html#autofill-detail-tokens

jf: If you google that string takes you to html5 spec

awk: Can add link to response.
... Anything else?

<JF> +1

RESOLUTION: Accept as amended

Issue 746 - https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/746

awk: Same thing. 1.3.4 is important, will gladly contribute. Response is the same. Any objections?

RESOLUTION: Accept as amended. Includes link back.

Issue 747 - https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/747

awk: Same as others. Similar, so same response. Any objections to accepting with same response?


RESOLUTION: Accepted as amended.

awk: Last of issues, 733.

Issue 733 - https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/733

awk: Two parts. One motion actuation, "and can be disabled to prevent actual activation." Don't need this phrase was comment. Group feels you do. User with hand tremors, needs to use the device, has to be able to disable item.

<JF> +1 to response

awk: For 1.3.4 include form controls as well as links. CR does not include links, based on input fields.
... Motion activation okay?
... no objections.
... Doesn't use those words anymore. Any objections?

<alastairc> +1 to response

awk: Okay.

jn: Motion activation. Really depends on motion activation, really big won't be accidental. Don't see how it will be accidentally activated.

Won't work in wheel chair very well.

jn: Motion activation is teh alternatve to onscreen control, but don't need to activate if something is extreme motion.
... comfortable to leave it in. Would accept response.

mg: Won't work for people in chairs. See above.

awk: Can't live with it? JN?

jn: Potentially can clarify intent behind it. Won't be way out of legal thing, but developers won't be so concerned with large movements.

jason: If disabling wouldn't play role in accidental activation since it wouldn't be set off anyway, won't be achieving purpose. Would like it to be clear, but can work around it.

awk: Maybe amendment that we will clarify in understanding doc further

jeanne: Not clear what we're clarifying

awk: Some aspects of motion would never be activated accidentally, so need to address that. Clarify what types of motion will be a problem and where difficult to be problem.

<Glenda> But what if I dropped my phone

awk: Like mobile device from above head to below waist.

jn: Except when drop phone.

steve: Wonder if we're talking about something that doesn't address. Seem innocuous to keep in. Easy technique.

awk: Jn's point as well. Doesn't require normative change in text. Flag for understanding doc.
... Make sense?

steve: Sure, wouldn't spend much time on it. Examples lacking.

jason: Large scale, camera based, multi modal where more likely to see it.

awk: Why there, and we'll clarify in understanding doc.
... Accept as amended?

RESOLUTION: Accepted as amended

<AWK> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues

awk: Have a number of issues now, 2.1 SC also other things. Existing conformance model, 1.4.8, scoping on blocks of text. Anything about 2.0 not changing bec of backward compatibility.
... But if others, help out.

jeanne: Blocks of text?

awk: In general as referred to in 2.0.

<AWK> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/765

jeanne: Had huge discussion in mobile meeting about blocks of text. Wondering if could use text.

awk: See comment to see how we're responding to issues.
... Considerably shorter, links go to different location on page for clarification.

jn: Tried notificatioin, didn't seem to go to right place. anchor tag seemed okay?

awk: Omitted an "s/f"
... Will have to revise

jn: Change or add anchor?

awk: Will fix.
... Just have 14 issues right now. If ppl want to look at issues, mark them as task force responsibility, but welcome to give resonse.

Implementation and techniques https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/WCAG_2.1_Implementations

awk: this one is wiki page link. Have not plugged in all initial techniques, but there's space for it. For each SC have to get examples. Let's collect ideas about sites.
... Sent out tweet, two at AA two at AAA.
... Laney offered AAA. Need other ones. Any other sites you know of that could serve as example?
... Need to test within next two months to verify that meet 2.1. Ideas for sites?
... We do think this can be met, right?
... Has asked for assessment.

<Glenda> How about something like this: nfb austin https://www.nfbtx.org/chapters-austin.php

Jn: Will ask as well. just clashes with work.

glenda: Instead of entire NFB site, went for a chapter.

awk: Threshold is five pages or five screens meet minimum. would seem to meet that.

glenda: Waht's teh deadline?

awk: If want to get wcag by june, proposed rec on 19th. backup a couple of weeks for agreement. End of March, all evaluation meeting criteria required.

Jn: How about getting 2.1 to meet it.

glenda: Too meta.

mc: Just as corporations can't do their sites to 2.1, w3c cna't either.

glenda: Twenty teams building sites for Air, not due until march. See if can get top three sites can be a good candidate. Will talk to Sharron.

mc: Interim site okay. has to be up for several months. Download for archiving.

glenda: Some really stout teams in competition. Will check with lead judge to seen how close top sites would be.

mc: From previous years. Need sites that meet active SC.

glenda: Would help them up to 2.1. Cool thing is that OpenAir judging form leans toward 2.1 already. Teach you right, y'all.

jf: hackathon from deque after CSUN. Personal a11y projects. Could lead table of ppl to work on examples. End of March.

awk: Good to keep in our pocket. Hope we can do this before that.

mc: have to plan some time to meet 2.1. Just be aware need by end of March.

<Glenda> Oh…what about https://www.24a11y.com

awk: Actively meet 2.1 criteria. Accurate, but might not have any AA or AAA sites. Every site need to meet all SC. Disabling character key short cuts.

mc: Literal wording, don't have to. Well-advised that every criteria will be part of a AA or AAA site. Not sure mandated, but should be concerned with that.

jn: Motion activation is another example. Most sites won't have it.

mc: Not having it isn't evidence of meeting SC.

glenda: Same as captioning for 2.0.

mc: Focused on some sites that would meet it.
... Found at least one A or AA that met it.
... "must actively meet new SC implementations need not be within conforming web site." We should try for it, though.

me: Not requiring 2.1 conformance for the whole site, are we?

awk: Yes, talking about meeting 2.1 conformance, as well as example of 2.1 SC.

glenda: Dennis Deacon was talking about TPG as possibility.

mc: For captions, did have sites that were being tested for conformance level, also those that were not. More thorough for 2.0 than 2.1, however.

<gowerm> It seems unsupportable that we would pass exit criteria without confirming the successful implementation of all 2.1 SCs

awk: Specific SCs now. Should be easier. Can show sites that show implementations of a sc, don't have to meet all other requirements. Like character key shortcuts.
... Any other sites that allows remap?

glenda: Google does. Kim made a video. An example of that SC being implemented.

awk: Successful implementation of SC on its own, adding existing sites is sufficient.

mc: yes

awk: label and name?

<jallan> single key shortcuts https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzSyIA4OWYE and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPjfpDU9S08

Kathy: Easy to find. Existing label meets name.

awk: Volunteers to find?

<JakeAbma> count me in

awk: Thanks Jake!

mg: Make sure that at least one person is using speech recognition tool to meet initial concern. Visible items on screen would not trigger action.

awk: Yes, can do that. Jake may have access to those tools. Or once he has found an example properly coded, we can test it.

jn: Would be able to do that.

<JakeAbma> have Dragon...

awk: Pointing gestures?
... Multipoint with single point gesture

<alastairc> I can't think of a site which uses multipoint gestures

awk: volunteers to find one? On 3rd of 17.

glenda: Pick a victim?

<adam_solomon> i guess u cant hear me - i am willing

awk: Picked me 4 times in row.

adam: Mobile task force where implementation would meet requirement on web.

glenda: Mobile TF is only four people right now.
... Detlev?

Jake: Just point me to the right place

<alastairc> I think it's this one: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/WCAG_2.1_Implementations

awk: Will put your name on list (see above link). Looking for hybrid sites that use pointer technologies. One approach, find site that fails then help them meet SC.
... Need minimum of two implementations.

jake: have to be English language sites?

awk: No. In fact preferable they not all be English.
... Not testing entire site. Just the SC.
... Pointer cancellation.

me: Thanks!

<alastairc> scribe:alastairc

AWK: Anyone want to take examples of pointer cancelation?

Kathy: Can we use examples behind a login? Many will be behind firewalls etc.

MichaelC: We have a procedure, we were allowed to test that previously. Public sites are preferable so people could double-check, but if that's the only way, there is a means to do it.

Kathy: Some of the more pointer/touch ones are easier to find in web apps rather than standard sites.

MichaelC: If we can snapshot content for archiving that is helpful. Fairly sure we had/have a procedure for that.

David: I can do that one.

MichaelC: Ah, looking at the docs, I think they need to be publically available.

AWK: I think the previous examples have been public.
... Motion actuation (2.6.1), any takers?
... ID common purpose (1.3.4)

<Glenda> https://www.24a11y.com/contact/

AWK: If we find a form that uses the autorfill tokens that would be good.

JF: There are many tokens, some need to be behind an authenticated page. Does it need to use all of the tokens? Or just some.

AWK: A good example of a contact form would be good enough. Doesn't have to use all of them, only where appropriate.

JF: So robust examples?

AWK: Yes, can't just have a form with an email address field. Needs a good example.

JF: I can track down some examples.
... 6 inputs, 8 inputs? Is there a qualifier?

AWK: I hadn't thought about a particular number, if a form has 12 fields, any that match a token should be included. If it has 12 inputs, there should be a 'bunch' of tokens.
... Reflow, 1.4.10

AlastairC: I can find those easily enough.

AWK: Non text contrast, 1.4.11

David: had a couple of questions,

David, including how borders are around inputs, inner, outer etc.

scribe: also, if we get complaints around one half, does it have to take the other with it?

MichaelC: What we said in the at-risk statement, which is to remove the whole thing.

AC: Recommend the updated understanding doc - http://rawgit.com/alastc/wcag21/graphics-contrast-rename/understanding/21/non-text-contrast.html

Glenda: In the old wording it was clearer, we lost a bit of that in the combined version.

<JakeAbma> up for it, can do Text Spacing

alastairc: If you consider the component as the thing you are testing, the change in state is part of the component, therefore it is around that component not within it.

AWK: Text spacing, 1.4.12
... it would be great to have one in japanses/chinese if possible.

<Makoto> I can do it for Japanese.

Jim: I got this one.

<steverep_> Me me

AWK: Content on hover or focus, 1.4.13

Marc: I'll take the next one, orientation.

AWK: Status changes

David: I'll take that.

AWK: Identify purpose
... Timeouts, 2.2.6
... Michael, this may be challenging to find one that doesn't need an authenticated session?

MichaelC: We should look at the similar SC for 2.0, see how that worked.

gowerm: I can take this one.

AWK: Three left, Animations from interactions

Kathy: I can do Target size, we have examples.

Jason: Challenge is that most interfaces satisfy it, not many would fail?

AWK: Might need to find a list of examples and contact people?

AlastairC: I'll find the ones James Craig was listing,

AWK: Concurrent input mechanisms

Jason: My comment was more about this one, they might not meet it actively.

AWK: I can think of things like MS Sway, none of the content exists until it scrolls into view. That might provide an example?
... Anyone else want to think about this one?
... This shouldn't be a huge task for people.

Chuck: I'll take this, my first volunteer.

Jemma: I've got a lot to do on Silver, but happy to review later.

<AWK> Volunteers listed on this page: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/WCAG_2.1_Implementations#Individual_SC_Implementations

AWK: We can know what we have left to do soon, where we have gaps. This will be a great help, and we will check back in on this next tuesday.

scribe sign ups

<Glenda> Can you add the link to volunteer for scribing her in IRC?

AWK: HAve meetings next tuesday/Thursday, 8th, 13th, 15th etc.

<Mike_Elledge> I will scribe next Tuesday 1st shift

<JakeAbma> 27th

<gowerm> I should be good for second shift

<gowerm> either

<jaeunjemmaku> I will do scribing this Thursday - first shift

<jamesn> advance regrets for Feb 13,15,20 & 22

<Glenda> I’ll take a Feb 13

<kirkwood> I’ll take the 20th

AWK: Everyone loves scribing... it is a trial by fire thing to start with.

Understanding update

AWK: Understanding update, check in with people, have you got any questions / problems etc?

Kathy: Could do with some people to help write techniques, we have a list on the wiki, will meet on Thursday to assign them. We are looking for people, please put your name in the wiki if interested.

<AWK> Mobile needs help: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/WCAG_2.1_Understanding_and_Techniques_Development

AWK: Take a look there, you'd be very welcome there. Could also join call 11am eastern.
... If we meet on Thursday as a full group, an hour is fine for this week. Should we say noon for that, an hour after the TF calls?
... Or should we skip the meeting to work on the items? I'd like to keep people's calendars there, but we do need to get these sites down. This would be a checkin on those items, and issue responses. the agenda would be quite light. I'd propose we don't need this one.
... Need people to work on this stuff. If they work on WCAG instead of the call, great.

gowerm: Looking at the link for mobile, could there be a one-stop shop for that? A combined one?

<jallan> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Accepted_WCAG_2.1_SC

<jallan> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Proposed_WCAG_2.1_SC_Techniques

AWK: We do have a page for that, for understanding docs.

@MichaelC: Have the github branches been tidied up?

<jallan> Low Vision Implementation - https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Tracking_Implementation_Issues_(Understanding_Docs_updates)

AWK: No clammour for a meeting on thursday, so we'll work instead. If you aren't sure what to do, talk to me/Josh/Michael and we can point you in the right direction.

question - have the github branches been tidied up now?

MichaelC: I need to merge understanding content into master. Probably won't happen this week.
... I'm aware of quite a few private branches. If people have separate branches, they need to request a merge.

AWK: Thanks everyone, talk next tuesday.

trackbot, end meeting

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

  1. Accepted as proposed.
  2. Accept as amended
  3. Accept as amended. Includes link back.
  4. Accepted as amended.
  5. Accepted as amended
[End of minutes]

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Default Present: AWK, Kathy, JaeunJemmaKu, kirkwood, JakeAbma, Makoto, alastairc, JF, Joshue108, MichaelC, jallan, SteveRepsher, Glenda, jasonjgw, Greg_Lowney, Mike_Pluke, Mike_Elledge, marcjohlic, adam_solomon
Present: AWK Kathy JaeunJemmaKu kirkwood JakeAbma Makoto alastairc JF Joshue108 MichaelC jallan SteveRepsher Glenda jasonjgw Greg_Lowney Mike_Pluke Mike_Elledge marcjohlic adam_solomon
Regrets: LisaSeeman Kim_Dirks Pietro Rachael BruceBailey laura
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Scribes: Mike_Elledge, alastairc
ScribeNicks: Mike_Elledge, alastairc
Found Date: 06 Feb 2018
People with action items: 

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