<scribe> scribenick: npdoty

transition to CG

tantek: the WG will close at the end of the year, not many more teleconferences
... no furhter f2f meetings scheduled
... need to transition any ongoing work items that may last beyond the end of the year: errata/revised recommendations, extensions (already in CG to some extent),
... CG scope is broader, so work that was out-of-scope for WG could be raised here

cwebber2: already in CG: implementation discussion
... handle new extensions of vocabulary
... wiki page has staged extensions, that can be voted into more official status

<cwebber2> https://www.w3.org/wiki/Activity_Streams_extensions

cwebber2: `sensitive` flag for Mastodon, and Hashtag object type

tantek: normative AS2 sets a vocabulary; open-ended vocabulary model of Linked Data; microformats vocabulary documented in wiki pages

<cwebber2> https://www.w3.org/TR/social-web-protocols/

<Loqi> [Amy Guy] Social Web Protocols

"Social Web Protocols" should terminate as a Note prior to closing the WG

<annbass> but "Social Web Protocols" doc could be maintained or updated as a report (or whatever to be called), by CG

<annbass> (personally, I thought it was a useful overview)

snarfed: Granary has a test suite with informal mappings

<tantek> https://www.w3.org/wiki/Activity_Streams/Microformats_Mapping

<snarfed> https://github.com/snarfed/granary converts between most social data formats - microformats2, AS1 and 2, Atom, etc.

<Loqi> [snarfed] granary: Fetches and converts data between Facebook, Google+, Instagram, and Twitter native APIs, ActivityStreams, microformats2 HTML and JSON, Atom, and more.

cwebber2: the extensions and a conversation point for implementations already part of the CG
... not sure what new standards would be in this space

<snarfed> demo: https://granary-demo.appspot.com/

tantek: work in progress, like Vouch for WebMention

cwebber2: a community-run anti-spam service called @@@

<annbass> (snarfed = Ryan Barrett)

tantek: could start with a list of documents in progress that could be CG reports

<cwebber2> documents from https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/

tantek: do we want to continue the Social Web Protocols document, for example?

<Loqi> Weekly telecons take place on Tuesdays at 13:00 US/Eastern (10:00 US/Pacific, 19:00 Paris, etc), as determined by WG resolution on 2017-05-2...

<cwebber2> * listed on

tantek: contributors can see what the current deliverables are that they might be able to work on

npdoty: CG can still be a place for general discussion on implementation and problems, but also have specific document deliverables

annbass: besides maintaining and errata, do any of the existing documents have big gaps that need to be flushed out?

tantek: for each spec, there were issues that were postponed for later versions

<cwebber2> https://github.com/swicg/general/issues

hadleybeeman: "enthusiastic spectator" -- is this group only in existence for the end of the WG? or is it a separately useful lighter touch entity?

cwebber2: major issues to address: harassment, account migration between servers
... still significant work to do, but maybe enough of a concrete output for a dedicated WG

tantek: +1

annbass: move to a CG, see where the energy is for which work, and then see if there's a new WG needed

tantek: combining related smaller groups that are all Social but were specific to a single tech

hadleybeeman: relation to Mastodon?

cwebber2: yes, Mastodon is a large implementation of ActivityPub

[discussion of support and maintenance of StatusNet, GNUSocial, etc.]

snarfed: some projects might not have technical energy to switch to ActivityPub

annbass: CG could attract participation from non-members, including Mastodon developers

snarfed: fed.bridgy will bridge OStatus and ActivityPub

<Loqi> [@hadleybeeman] @agriculios They're growing out of the @SocialWebWG, which is winding up the to-do list in its charter: https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg (http://twtr.io/1Y3FuGePhrm)

[discussion of using dedicated instances for companies and using Mastodon for support/engagement]

<tantek> note: https://social.csswg.org/

<tantek> and https://w3c.social/

federation allows anyone to set up any instance, but there is also a culture of the existing audience/community

[is Gargron actually Satoshi Nakomoto?]

<cwebber2> https://github.com/swicg/general/issues/19

<Loqi> [cwebber] #19 ActivityStreams extensions process

npdoty: running separate Mastodon instances, or maintaining slightly different forks, might contribute to interop of ActivityPub, not just Mastodon versions

tantek: companies that start their own projects that use the protocols, would make it a peer in the system

abuse and harassment

<cwebber2> https://www.w3.org/wiki/SocialCG/2017-10-11/minutes

cwebber2: different approaches, including: federation of blocklists

shared blocklists on Twitter have had difficulties, including opening up further attack

cwebber2: filtering tools (based on specified words), or spam (bayesian inference) techniques
... or Web-of-Trust-style building a network of who you trust and their subsequent relationships

hadleybeeman: use cases for what can a victim do, but also interested in community responses / collective action
... what about law enforcement or someone-who-wants-to-help or an authority, and how could they establish evidence, etc.

distinguishing between wide-scale surveillance and user features that could help with collaborating with authorities

<hadleybeeman> to be clear, I'm not advocating surveillance or any kind of back door here. I'm talking about a different kind of user, who can pull data on (or be asked to help with) a situation where someone may need help.

<hadleybeeman> Since there isn't a central authority to work out that one user is harrassing a bunch of people — how do a group of us gather evidence to for an offline authority to help/take action?

npdoty: an intrinsic advantage of federation is having different policies for different instances, rather than a single central system that has to have a single policy for everyone

<hadleybeeman> @npdoty: Agreed. I'm more thinking of tools rather than policies

<tantek> FYI: citations debunking more than not the notion of filter bubbles: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filter_bubble#Reactions

npdoty: having more granular tools would make bubbles created by very blunt instruments even less likely to be a problem

cwebber2: try to prototype a lot of different filtering and blocking approaches, and see how well they actually work out

hadleybeeman: +1
... will require regular adaptation/evolution over time
... having granularity available, can make it so that superusers can develop different approaches that various users can try out

cwebber2: should try to push more power to the user rather than server or global level

<Loqi> [@agriculios] @hadleybeeman @SocialWebWG Thank you 😊 very, very interesting. (http://twtr.io/1Y3KYvke9SQ)

cwebber2: keeps me up at night that anyone can send something to your ActivityPub inbox

tantek: as it was with SMTP

HTTP 409 Payment Required

tantek: don't have as much experience with as many users as large social networks and handling abuse in those situations
... and can certainly have protocol designers that are blind to the privileges in place, as in W3C and IETF

torgo: there is a community of users who are especially familiar with abuse

cwebber2: and we can build on that

[discussion of Vouch and "web of trust" used in different ways]

<tantek> torgo FYI: https://indieweb.org/Vouch

group interest in dedicating some time to documenting cases and building methods for addressing harassment

https://www.w3.org/community/socialcg/

<cwebber2> trackbot, end meeting

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