Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference

10 Aug 2017

See also: IRC log


AWK, KimD, alastairc, jasonjgw, chriscm, Joshue108, scott, JF, Rachael, Pietro, shadi, David-MacDonald, Laura, lisa, kirkwood, MikeGower, glenda, Kim
Detlev, KathyW, Mike_Pluke, EA_Draffan
Alex, Laura




<interaccess> trackbot, start meeting

<trackbot> Meeting: Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference

<trackbot> Date: 10 August 2017


<Alex> scribe: Alex

<AWK> Scribe: Alex

Popup Visibility - #75 (https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/Final_prelockdown_set/results#xsc11)

awk please go through the entire survey

awk please use present + at meeting


<AWK> https://www.w3.org/2017/11/TPAC/

awk please RSVP for TPAC

awk make your hotel booking sooner rather than later

<AWK> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Scribe_List

awk please sign up for scribing at TPAC

Personalization - issue 6 https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/Final_prelockdown_set/results#xSC13

lisa Michael's issues that can be resolve

lisa let's look at AA first

lisa hope Alex will be ok if he sees the technique

josh what do you mean by convention?

lisa button has to have a name that tells when the button does

lisa will help autofill

lisa let's go over the conditional approval comments first

<alastairc> The 2 objections were from MichaelG and Alex, both to do with including a schema/listing with the SC.

jf author is supposed to use a fixed taxonomy

jf you can use many different ways to meet the AA

jf fixed taxonomy is aimed for AAA

josh most comments are concerned about binding nature. A use case would be helpful.

jason this is more about question for the working group. concern about internationalization

jason, would this work for AT?

<Joshue108> thanks for that Alastair.

jason seems more sensible to work on autocomplete

<Zakim> JF, you wanted to address Jason's question

JF having author provide machine readable lookup table is optimal

JF but that is for AAA for now, because tech is not ready

JF use of ARIA is the easiest way to get there

JF since we don't have it, let's get some human readable way to help at AA

josh Mike and Alex have concerns

lisa tried to harmonize and achieve internationalization

<alastairc> I sent some examples which could turn into techniques to the COGA list: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-cognitive-a11y-tf/2017Aug/0010.html

<JF> Common Concept: (First Name)

<JF> Technique(s) for AA: (using @title) <input type="text" title="ספק את שמך הפרטי"> (Hebrew Example)

lisa we will work on techniques as we go

<JF> (using Microformats) <input type="text" class="fname">

<JF> (using COGA Semantics) <input type="text" coga-field="name">

<JF> of those 3, only the second and third would be sufficient for AAA

lisa let's put it in draft to see how it works for different language

alastair internationalization is an issue for the descriptions, not the tokens

jf we are introduce are things to look at

<Joshue108> AL: I'll have to see the techniques.

<lisa> example using autocorrect for Postal Code: <input name=bp autocomplete="section-blue shipping postal-code">

josh let me take the temperature

jason i partly agree with john

jason the AA SC may present issues with internationalization

<lisa> jason you are arguing over techneuqes

jason prefer to hold off AA and work on the AAA

<lisa> auto corect is one example of what is availible now

jason not sure this is ready for 2.1

<lisa> widely availible

david i see jason's concern but also sees the opposite

jf we have a chicken and egg problem

jf proposing the human readable solution help break the problem

awk support the idea, but the list is really long

<JF> I agree that the list needs to be trimmed significantly

awk can you shorten it

lisa only to include things in autocorrect

<alastairc> I think James asked they align, i.e. if there is overlap then use the HTML term.

josh i'm hearing support. techniques can be added

<AWK> Before I would agree to this going in the draft I would need to see the editor's note that accompanies it

josh i think this is ready

<david-macdonald> BRB I +1 inclusion at AA and AAA with at risk note editor

<JF> +1

<Rachael> +1 I am comfortable with this going forwarrd

<kirkwood> +1

<Glenda> +1

<alastairc> +1

jf will trying to get things ready

<Joshue108> +1 with editors note - and more focussed list

<KimD> 0 I still have concerns about whether it makes sense to be broadly implemented.

awk want to see the editor's note

-1 for now

<alastairc> The techniques are important, but the principle that the techniques follow is that it is feasible at AA, so we don't need to specify techniques first.

<laura> +1 with editor's note

josh we have largely positive

<AWK> +1 assuming editor's note is clarified before the end of the CFC


<chriscm> +1

<lisa> +1

<Joshue108> Is this related to you wishing to Alex.

<Pietro> +1

Alex needs to see techniques

<alastairc> I posted some initial examples, perhaps Alex can look through later?

<lisa> i also posted an example Postal Code: <input name=bp autocomplete="section-blue shipping postal-code">

i will look after the call

<Joshue108> thanks Alex

michael we can pull thing after cfc

michael but we can't add

<chriscm> @Lisa: I think it's really cool that this came together. Good work.

<lisa> thank you Chris, and everyone else who helped

michael please comment on CFC for objection

<alastairc> Lisa, would it be a good idea to put the list of terms in a google doc / sheet for group editing?

jf will have the note for Tuesday

<chriscm> @JF Marty McFly could! Come on man.

RESOLUTION: Accepted as proposed for the AA Personalization item, with an objection from Alex.

<JF> @alastair I'm down with that (google doc spreadsheet)

michael we ought to have separate cfc

josh thank you

<alastairc> can we separate? I thought the AAA one needed a bit of change.

<alastairc> ok

lisa can we edit after august

michael yes

<lisa> +1

lisa we can remove region

<JF> +1 as well

<Rachael> +1

alastair can live with it

<AWK> +1

+1 or -1 on AAA going to CFC

<Joshue108> +1

<kirkwood> +1


<Pietro> +1

<alastairc> +1

<KimD> 0 same concerns about whether it can be broadly implemented

<Glenda> +1

<laura> +1

<chriscm> +1

<lisa> Thanks all the folks who helped with this

RESOLUTION: presonalization AAA accepted

awk who is caller 3

<laura> SCribe: Laura

Josh: Good discussion on this.
... Steve has a new wording.

<Zakim> AWK, you wanted to discuss changes

awk: I think all issues are resolved.
... the word popup is removed.

<Joshue108> AWK updated Popup Visibility in survey.

awk: uses when content apears.
... triggred by a UI component.

Visible trigger: Either the additional content does not obscure any essential content within the triggering user interface component, or the additional content can be closed or repositioned by the user.

scribe: …we don’t spec how.

alex: agree will most of this.
... 3rd condition unnecessary.
... 3rd condition unnecessary.
... why wouldn’t 231 apply?

awk: explains.

alex: okay.

david: I don’t mind the extra reminder.

josh: do people feel this is ready?

<alastairc> +1 I suggested a minor wording change, but happy in principle

<gowerm> +1

kim: question custom tooltips

awk: lots of options to dismiss them.
... shouldn’t be an issue

kim: thinking about the layers.
... should be okay.

<AWK> Need to indicate in the understanding document that activating a button that triggers a tooltip would be a fine way to dismiss the additional content

mg: understanding docs should mention 321

<alastairc> AWK did you see my most recent suggestion? Starting it "For content that becomes visible"

<AWK> Need to go into detail about where 2.1.1 / 3.2.1 / and this SC interact.

<KimD> +1 ready

josh: hearing no objections.

<gowerm> +1

<david-macdonald> +1

<AWK> +1

<kirkwood> +1

<alastairc> +1

<Alex> +1

<lisa> +1

awk: steve had some objections. But I think he will be ok.

laura: +1

<alastairc> I can help you drop another?

RESOLUTION: Popup Visibility accepted for CFC

Popup Visibility - #75 (https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/Final_prelockdown_set/results#xsc11)

Time Outs

<david-macdonald> Chaohai Ding

<AWK> Current SC: Where data can be lost due to timeouts, users are warned at the start of a process about the length of inactivity that generates the timeout, unless the data is preserved for a minimum of 24 hours of user inactivity.

Timeouts - Issue 14 https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/Final_prelockdown_set/results#xSC1

<lisa> he has not been well unfortunatly so I am helping out\


awk: AA
... Michael Elledge minor edit and wordsmithing

<JF> +1

MG: for forms time outs may be an issue
... outside the control of the author.
... worry about how "user inactivity" is measured.
... how does an author tell?

<AWK> Mike: Where data can be lost due to user inactivity, users are warned at the start of a process about the length of inactivity that generates the timeout, unless the data is preserved for a minimum of 24 hours of user inactivity.

MG: rationale for 20 hours in the current 2.0 spec, that I find it disheartening to talk about extending it even more. Half of that time would be reasonable.
... 24 seems abritrary.

lisa: it can easily take people longer than 24 hours.
... people may need to continue the next day.
... does not require a calculation.
... a lot of COGA rationale for this.

<alastairc> inactivity?

lisa: maybe add the word “Server” to time outs

AC maybe use inactivity.

Lisa: will change to user inactivity.

awk: should write the note for this one too.

JF: have some concerns that we haven’t talked about.

awk: we will talk about this on tuesday.

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

  1. Accepted as proposed for the AA Personalization item, with an objection from Alex.
  2. presonalization AAA accepted
  3. Popup Visibility accepted for CFC
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Present: AWK KimD alastairc jasonjgw chriscm Joshue108 scott JF Rachael Pietro shadi David-MacDonald Laura lisa kirkwood MikeGower glenda Kim
Regrets: Detlev KathyW Mike_Pluke EA_Draffan
Found Scribe: Alex
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Found Scribe: Laura
Inferring ScribeNick: laura
Scribes: Alex, Laura
ScribeNicks: Alex, laura
Found Date: 10 Aug 2017
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2017/08/10-ag-minutes.html
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