See also: IRC log
<allanj> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2017JulSep/0243.html
<allanj> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/75#issuecomment-309306101
<allanj> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/58
<allanj> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/76
<allanj> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2017JulSep/0243.html
<allanj> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/75#issuecomment-309306101
<allanj> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/58
<allanj> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/76
<shawn> Hi Jim. my 8:00 meeting is still going and I need to stay in there. :( I hope to be done before we get to the get to the printing topic
<allanj> scribe: Laura
Jim: Adapting text is in
<JohnRochford> Jim: Congratulations to Laura for the Adapting Text SC!
<allanj> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2017JulSep/0243.html
Jim: Thread from Alastair on fixed headers
AC: most sites work well with our
model. But grey area is fixed areas.
... can obsure 80% of content with fixed headers.
... media query can fix it
... need to define it.
... it is a tricky one.
... would be nice to have a failure. But not sure how to get it
in.
Jim: Having it in the
understanding doc seems reasonable.
... maybe a technique
SC: yes we can come up with a advisory technique. Have one in mind.
wayne: We can’t do everything at
this time.
... we could put pictures in the techique.
Jim: would we test in portrait and landsacpe?
AC: should be covered in the existing SC text.
jim: add to the descriptiion.
<alastairc> Technique for: Using media queries to check for sufficient space of elements fixed to the viewport
AC: will draft a technique.
<allanj> ACTION: Alastair to add text in description about fixed headers, and an advisory technique such as "Using media queries to check for sufficient space of elements fixed to the viewport" [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/07/20-lvtf-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-99 - Add text in description about fixed headers, and an advisory technique such as "using media queries to check for sufficient space of elements fixed to the viewport" [on Alastair Campbell - due 2017-07-27].
jim: we have 4 weeks left before
AG deadline for SCs
... do we need any more on reflow?
AC: need to take away CSS so
everything is vertical.
... lots of sites are unusable when you do this.
... more difficult. But think it is still on the table.
Laura: maybe ping David.
... David is the SC manager.
Wayne: think this is a lower
priority.
... needs UA support.
A
AC: will take a lot of
effort.
... lots of work still left to do on Adapting Text and Zoom
Jim: up to 400% we almost have linearization?
AC: it is different.
... zoom is cleaner.
Jim: any objections to lower
prority for this one?
... no objections heard.
... personization group will be forming. Will send out info on
it later today.
<allanj> https://www.w3.org/TR/personalization-semantics-1.0/
<allanj> Task force in preliminary forrmation. LisaS and John LaPierre co-chairs
<allanj> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/75
<allanj> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Wayne%27s_Metadata_Scratch_pad#Current:
Jim: link to waynes Scratch pad
<allanj> For informational content that appears on hover or focus, all of the following are true:
<allanj> Turn Off
<allanj> The informational content can be turned off
<allanj> Neither obscures nor is obscured
<allanj> The informational content does not obscure the triggering content nor is it obscured by the pointer
<allanj> Other method
<allanj> hover and/or focus are not the only means of accessing the informational content
<allanj> Not important
<allanj> does not include information necessary to perceive content
<allanj> Note
<allanj> This does not apply to user agent rendering of the title attribute.
Jim: that is the current wording.
<allanj> mgower comment: https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/75#issuecomment-313684490
jim: mbgower had some concerns. https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/75#issuecomment-313684490
<allanj> he had issues with outline on links. and why this is against focus.
<allanj> ja: if something has additional content, don't want it to pop up on hover or focus. want to know additional content exists and hit enter to make it appear and esc to make it go away
john: it can obscure
<allanj> wayne: if outline (thick obscures) it shouldn't be there.
John: thin borders can obscure
Jim: The informational content
can be turned off
... mike G said to use mechnism
<allanj> mgower suggested: a mechanism is available to allow user control for the display of non-persistent textual information.
<allanj> evil mechanism word
<allanj> wayne: is it important to turn on/off
<allanj> laura: depends
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Wayne%27s_Metadata_Scratch_pad#Current
<allanj> reveal preseencse then activate in soem fashion
<allanj> reveal presence then activate in some fashion
<allanj> original wording: Informational content that is only shown by hovering a mouse over an element is not used as the only means of conveying information and does not obscure other content.
steve: for turning off what is
the mechanism?
... how am I going to turn it off?
<wayneDick> Meta Data on Hover · be fully visible, · be available on focus as well as hover · be available via any input method. · not be obscured, and · not obscure important content that is related to the triggering event.
<wayneDick> Meta on Hover
steve: what is the other means?
jim: icon
<wayneDick> be fully visible, be availableon focus as well as hover, be available via any input methos, Not be oblcuredd, not oblcure essential content
<allanj> sr: if we eliminate focus/hover, what's left?
<JohnRochford> Gotta go, folks.
<wayneDick> full visible, available on focus as well, not obscure essential content
<allanj> sr: if not available on focus fails 2.1.1 - keyboard access
<allanj> For informational content that appears on hover or focus, all of the following are true
<allanj> all popup content is visible on the page, or a way to get to it to read it. (if you move mouse then no longer hover and tooltip vanishes)
<allanj> sr: stuff running off the page, view a specific size/resolution.
steve: problem with stuff running off page.
<allanj> ... focus is not triggered on hover.
<allanj> ... if box appears when you hover over an icon, user should be able to move mouse to box and the box should not disappear until mouse off of the box
<allanj> sr: should be any content
<allanj> ... user can fully access content that pops up
<allanj> ... user can get to information behind it also
<allanj> lc: content is not obscured by or obscures triggering content.
Laura: Informational content that appears on hover or focus neither obscures nor is obscured by the triggering content.
<steverep> To cover the one case: Content that becomes visible on hover or focus remains visible while hover or focus is on the triggering content or the appearing content.
<allanj> 1. not obscure triggering content
<allanj> 2. triggered content remains visible while mouse is on triggered content, or focus remains on triggering content.
<allanj> gs: do we want authors to fix this, or can we get browser vendors to fix this. it will be a tough sell
<allanj> sr: is this pointer dependent. if you have arrow pointer (even giant) - don't put tooltip in lower right, unless swap to left arrow then lower left is problematic
<allanj> lc: perhaps an advisory technique
<allanj> ja: tooltip is a browser thing. author created popups they can control
<Glenda> We have an exception related to “user agent control” in UIC Contrast Minimum. Jim, maybe you can be inspired by that language for this one too “User agent control
<Glenda> The color(s) of the user interface component and any adjacent color(s) are determined by the user agent and are not modified by the author.”
<allanj> ACTION: jim to create popup rewrite [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/07/20-lvtf-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-100 - Create popup rewrite [on Jim Allan - due 2017-07-27].
<allanj> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/76
<allanj> wd: need to create a list of things that are necessary were dropped because of scope or browser issues
<allanj> change font family and color
<allanj> tooltip behavior
<allanj> linearization
wayne: It works in firefox.
Jim: things can break.
<allanj> this has browser implications
Jim: is a browser issue in many ways.
wayne: 200% is the best you can do.
<allanj> ja: all of the spacing trickles thru to printing, but not font size or zoom
<steverep> I know we're on printing, but here's my stab at Popup Interference: Popup content does not make its triggering content invisible, and remains visible while hover or focus is on the popup content or its triggering content. (where popup is defined as "appears on hoveror focus")
Jim: will post tesing to the list.
<allanj> specify media in the CSS to change printing font size
<allanj> +1 steve
shawn: fine with 200%.
<allanj> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Printing_Customized_Text#Examples
shawn: thinks we should drop the zoom.
<allanj> wayne: CNN is a failure of 1.4.4 on printed page.
<allanj> need to reword SC to the authors makes print style sheet as flexible as on screen layout for accommodating adapting text spacing
<allanj> trackbot, end meeting
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.152 of Date: 2017/02/06 11:04:15 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: Irssi_ISO8601_Log_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/resaonable/reasonable/ Succeeded: s/Hve/Have/ Succeeded: s/qurn/turn/ Default Present: steverep, erich, Laura, Shawn(part) Present: steverep erich Laura Shawn(part) Regrets: Marla Found Scribe: Laura Inferring ScribeNick: laura Found Date: 20 Jul 2017 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2017/07/20-lvtf-minutes.html People with action items: alastair jim WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]