05 Jun 2017

See also: IRC log


Pietro, JanMcSorley, JohnRochford


<lisa> agenda: this

<kirkwood> Regrets today unable to attend

<lisa> john K i will be showing how to vote on wcag surveys. do you want me to review it on skype with you tomorow?

<kirkwood> That would be great. Sorry have a dr appointment now

<lisa> scribe: JohnRochford

how to fill in surveys for wcag

John and Mike will work on Accessible Authentication text this week, as quickly as possible.

Lisa: All should fill in the surveys .

John and Mike: We also don't fill out the surveys because we may not agree but don't want to vote against.

Michael: If people don't vote (no), there will be problems down the line.

Andrew: It's better to vote with comments, but also to vote without them.

<lisa> can you here us pietro?

<lisa> hear us?

<Pietro> I hear

John: To address Lisa's and Andrew's questions, says that one of his concerns, not the primary, is that SC don't go far enough to address user needs.

<Pietro> yes, I voted sometimes

Andrew: Please don't use the term "voting".

<AWK> Andrew: We aren't voting per se, just collecting feedback for the group to read/react to

<Pietro> My problem is not the process but the time to study topics

Lisa: I want to be sure everyone is not having any technical trouble with completing surveys.

Jan: I don't have technical trouble. My problem is that I'm not sure my understanding is as good as W3C long-time participants.


<lisa> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/COGA_help/

<lisa> ea can you here us?

next meetings -can we set a new time?

Lisa: It's very relevant that we do vote (answer survey questions) and express any concerns.
... Is Wednesday a good day for everyone?

Jan: Thursdays better.

Lisa: How about same time on Thursday?

<EA> Sadly I am desperately trying to get sound and having no luck. My headphone test on Webex is perfect and I can see you all talking but not nothing is coming out!

<Pietro> I cannot Wednesday, I can Thursday

Lisa: Will send Doodle poll.

<lisa> ation: lisa make poll for new time

<lisa> ACTION: lisa make poll for new time [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/06/05-coga-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-216 - Make poll for new time [on Lisa Seeman-Kestenbaum - due 2017-06-12].

<lisa> sorry ea!

<lisa> can you press conect to audion?

review sc wording for help

<EA> No worries I am reading... yes I have tried it!

<lisa> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-cognitive-a11y-tf/2017Jun/0009.html

<lisa> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-cognitive-a11y-tf/2017Jun/0009.html

<EA> I will try again ... no panic

Lisa: Before you respond to the survey about the help and support SC, I would like to know of any concerns with it.
... Example is that we addressed long blocks of text, and we can get more evidence for that.

<lisa> Long blocks of text: are divide with heading, keywords are visually emphasized or a summary is provided

AWK: I'm reading that long blocks of text can be addressed by *one* of the following.
... Should we be bumping up the AAA SC that already exists to AA instead?

Lisa: We were told we could not change existing SC.

AWK: You weren't told we could not change the level of SC.

<lisa> Long blocks of text: are divide with heading, keywords are visually emphasized or a summary is provided

Lisa: Describing problems with existing SC.

<AWK> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-cognitive-a11y-tf/2017Jun/0009.html

<lisa> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-cognitive-a11y-tf/2017Jun/0009.html

Lisa: There were a few SC with overlap, but Jan's writing an email with the differences between them.

<Pietro> correct "are divide" into "they are divided"

EA: Some European nations have guidelines / requirements for some explicit way to simplify complex text.

<lisa> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-cognitive-a11y-tf/2017Jun/0009.html

<lisa> http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/bitv_2_0/anlage_2.html

Jan: We are going to get pushback on what's a long doc, which is why we are focusing on long text.

Lisa: We could not find a definition people could live with for long docs.

<lisa> https://www.lingulab.de/content/barrierefreiheit-bitv-wcag/barrierefreiheit-bitv/

Mike: This would be especially useful for supplemantary information.

Lisa: People could see a summary of sorts from headings, which are described elsewhere in the WCAG.
... We are saying for numerical content, that we can do any of these things (headings, summaries, etc.)
... Should there be an exception for single digits / real numbers.
... Example - numerical content beyond real numbers

Jan: We should not need an alternative unless there is a need to manipulate the numbers.

Lisa: Jan, would you draft that exception?

Jan: Yes.

Lisa: Does anyone have any objections to the whole SC?

AWK: There's no organizing connections amongst the 3 parts. How could this be tweaked to make sense for more people?

Jan: Concern is about the cognitive load. I agree we could change the one statement at the beginning, and providing a little more explanation.

AWK: If we are talking about nonstandard controls not having instructions, for example, there may be no dependency on a term such as long document.
... If this should be separated out maybe it could be separate SC.

Lisa: Possibly what we could do is that we could separate into different SC as long as doing so would not need a long timeline, such as 2 months.
... Should we take out "one or more of the following"?

EA: Why do we need to define "long document"?

Lisa: Because, for example, the SC needs to be testable.
... To EA, could we have a word count for each language?

Jan: We are going to have trouble finding a research base for that.

EA: Agrees with Jan.

<AWK> I'm starting a call at the top of the hour so need to drop

Have to go. Bye.

<lisa> • Long blocks of text are divide with heading, keywords are visually emphasized

<lisa> • Long blocks of text have a summary is provided

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: lisa make poll for new time [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/06/05-coga-minutes.html#action01]

Summary of Resolutions

[End of minutes]

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Present: Pietro JanMcSorley JohnRochford
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<dbooth> Meeting: Weekly Baking Club Meeting

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Got date from IRC log name: 05 Jun 2017
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2017/06/05-coga-minutes.html
People with action items: lisa

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